Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-12-04/Humour - Wikipedia


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What? jp×g🗯️ 22:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, what? Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
"a voyeuristic attack on a woman, ridiculing her and denying her even the right to defend herself" Hey, bro, I hope she sees this. Chris Troutman (talk) 03:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Mandy Rice-Davies died in 2014, Chris troutman. I agree with agr that the "humour" leaves a bad taste. Bishonen | tålk 04:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC).Reply

This seems to have caused a gratuitous amount of offense, including being blanked for a speedy deletion request not once but twice. I can understand not thinking it's funny — I would put it in the bottom decile of jokes I've made — but I have asked numerous times and failed to get any sort of explanation of the offense going on here. I asked some of my friends in real life, ranging across various ages and genders and political inclinations etc, to read this and see what the problem was (perhaps "Rice-Davies" is some kind of ethnic slur I've never heard about) and none of them could figure it out either. Nobody has been able, hitherto, to explain how "applying to a job" or "applying sunscreen" constitute any sort of attack on anybody's character.

It's really not that complicated of a joke.

I don't know, maybe this is my cow tools moment, but I am somewhat disturbed by the idea that if a joke isn't funny, it must actually be some kind of secret other joke, which is extremely offensive but also for some reason nobody can be bothered to explain how or why. What are you people talking about? jp×g🗯️ 04:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

If there has been "a speedy deletion request not once but twice", maybe that should raise a question mark in the thought process. If there is something that is upsetting people, it doesn't matter whether you see it as a problem or not: others do and it may be the easier and more peaceful path to delete this and move on. (For me, despite re-reading this three times, there's zero humour in this, which is probably as good a reason as any for deleting it). I'd be happy to add a speedy deletion request to give it a third strike if you'd like? - SchroCat (talk) 09:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Okay, so, to be clear, you are suggesting that an article must be retracted, out of process, if any random person says it should -- and not only that, but also that they do not even need to say a reason?
It has already been tagged (by the same person) twice and declined. Please feel free to take this to MfD, with the rationale of "I refuse to disclose a reason for why this needs to be deleted". jp×g🗯️ 10:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
No, I’ve rather obviously not said that at all. Out of process? It’s a dead end page. It’s doesn’t need a process or court hearing to remove it: deleting and removing the pointless link on the front can be easily done. You obviously don’t want to - that’s fine, life’s too short to argue over pointless rubbish, but there’s no need for you to be so uber defensive about it. If you’re ok with it annoying or upsetting people, there’s nowt I can say that will change your mind. SchroCat (talk) 12:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

It’s a mild, and to me, totally inoffensive, pun on the word "applies". Perhaps too subtle for some. Definitely not worthy of the offense apparently taken. Lighten up folks, it is not sexist, racist or any of the other "isms" it is fashionable to take offense to these days. The worst you can reasonably claim is that it missed its target audience (zing), but this is Wikipedia, everything misses part of the audience. Cheers · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 10:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

PS, Trouts are in a bin at the door. · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 10:31, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

The real failure here was not giving her a beard, a robe, and a white Russian and captioning it "Mandy abides." ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

  • This showed up on my watchlist just now. So far as I can tell, the point seems to be to riff on the existing page WP:MANDY. As there seem to be lots of editors who think they can do better, I suggest that the Signpost makes this into a caption contest. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
    "Mandy's application to the 2023 Arbcom elections caught some editors off guard, but others said 'well, she would apply, wouldn't she?'" Peter Southwood sums up my views quite well; I found it funny, I accept others might not, but I can't see how on earth anyone could be offended by this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Ms. Rice-Davis at the time of the photographs was an attractive young woman notorious for her sexual activities with famous persons, activities within her rights. She and her estate have some right to privacy. I do not see any justification for using her image on this page. On Wikipedia, her name has become a catch phrase for an important editorial debate on neutrality, but that is no justification for using her image as the target of sexist ridicule. If she were a man or an elderly woman would the joke work? --agr (talk) 16:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Is the imagined application of sunscreen really sexist? ☆ Bri (talk) 16:51, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
According to the WP:MANDY, "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" is what Ms. Rice-Davis said about Lord Astor. Do you still consider it sexist if the genders are reversed? – bradv 17:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
"If she were a man or an elderly woman would the joke work?" Yes, if you put a photoshop of Donald Trump applying suncream to himself with a witty caption, I'd probably laugh as well. I sort of get your point that if MRD was a low-profile individual subject to harassment who wanted to stay out of the limelight, then BLP and harassment concerns would be a reasonable viewpoint. But our article (backed up by reliable sources) stated she milked the attention for all that it was worth and compared herself to famous mistresses in history. You can't have it both ways. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
WP:NOTCENSORED. It's a joke.[citation needed][clarification needed][according to whom?][need quotation to verify][fact or opinion?][how?][buzzword] Respectfully: get over it! Tim O'Doherty (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

WTF, people? It's just a really lame dad joke playing with the meaning of the word "applies" (she applies for a job, she applies sunscreen). It's not Groucho Marx, but it's certainly harmless humor and definitely not any sort of attack. If you don't think so, MFD is the right venue. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:56, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Contemporary culture seems dedicated to the proposition that outrage is a desirable emotion and should be sought at every opportunity. Smallchief (talk) 11:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

You misspelled her name on the fake CV; it's Rice-Davies, not Rice-Davis. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 12:50, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

@BlackcurrantTea: Oh, hell. I missed that. Fixed! jp×g🗯️ 02:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply