Talk:Chip Berlet: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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== "verification failed"? ==

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In 1987, when Berlet moved with his organization to Boston from Chicago, the Chicago Area Friends of Albania gave him a special sendoff, noting that, "Chip was one of our founding members, and a steadfast friend of Albania through thick and thin." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/55 Gators|contribs]]) 15:34, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

::evidence that the National Lawyers Guild "supported every twist and turn in Soviet foreign policy, including the invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan"? There isn't any, because they didn't.

:This is synthesis. The source does not say that Berlet was doing anything extremist. It says he was a member of a group, then it says that the group was doing certain things. Which does not mean that Berlet was doing those things. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 15:59, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

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::::::::::Those warnings are just Binksternet being Binksternet. As for the substance here, the whole reason for George and Wilcox bringing up Berlet's NLG membership is to demonstrate Berlet's own radical, front-organization roots; as you might put it, Gators, "the pot calling the kettle black." [[User:Badmintonhist|Badmintonhist]] ([[User talk:Badmintonhist|talk]]) 18:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

:::the description of the National Lawyers Guild and Berlet's connection with it is entirely scurrilous, repeating shopworn lies first circulated by Joseph McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover, whom the NLG opposed. While the NLG certainly defended victims of McCarthyism, including communists, to say that it is or was an arm of the Soviet government is false. Moreover, the assertion that they supported the soviet invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia is pure fabrication. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/172.243.148.28|172.243.148.28]] ([[User talk:172.243.148.28|talk]]) 13:36, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

~~== Investigative/Advocacy Journalist etc. ==~~

There has been a tussle over whether Berlet is an investigative journalist, an advocacy journalist, or something else. There is no source for either kind of journalist cited in the article. It does say that he once worked for [[High Times]], which would make him an advocacy journalist, but that was a long time ago. According to his blog, he's a "human rights activist." That could be considered a contentious statement from a self-published source, but it's better than nothing. [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 18:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

:Tussle? Do tell. Yes he once wrote an article for hightimes. There's this blue link at the bottom that links to a wiki page that contains his bibliography. It's interesting that you are going to use his blog it would seem his website would be just reliable. http://www.chipberlet.net/ It says he is a investigative reporter, independent scholar, photographer, videographer, and progressive activist. It also says he is a human rights activist.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 21:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

:Working for ''High Times'' would not make Berlet an advocacy journalist any more than working for ''Mother Jones'' or ''Playboy'' would. The association with a magazine is not what does it—it's the actual work performed by the journalist. We can simply throw out that unsupported bit of conjecture.

:More to the point, your primary blog source has Berlet calling himself [http://www.chipberlet.blogspot.com/ "an investigative researcher and reporter... an activist and organizer since the mid 1960s"]. So you haver personally elected to ignore the bit about being an investigative researcher and a reporter, and instead you have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chip_Berlet&curid=12413189&diff=608722543&oldid=608426130 told the reader that Berlet] is a "human rights activist". This shows you engaging in a non-neutral twisting of the source.

:The source is in any case not what we want to use to define Berlet for the reader. We should be using [[WP:SECONDARY]] sources for that. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 22:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

::We should be but under the circumstances if no one has found any secondary sources these sources will suffice under my understanding of [[WP:BLPSPS]]. The thing that puzzles me is the logic behind removing the part about him being a photojournalist and investigative journalist. First was the push for him to be called an adcocacy journalist and then when a source couldn't be found all mention of his journalist career was removed to focus on activism. These changes are a bit suspect.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 23:11, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

:::If you don't have a proper source, why are you saying anything at all about his profession? If some guy puts on his personal blog that he's the Amazing Spiderman, will Wikipedia put that in an article? But in fact, there is a secondary source, the Laird Wilcox book mentioned earlier. It describes Berlet as a "writer," which I think everyone can agree on, as well as "activist." For someone to claim "journalist" as a profession, he should be employed as a staff member of a reputable publication. It appears that currently Berlet is an unemployed blogger, but he used to work for PRA. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 15:50, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

::::{{ping|55 Gators}}That was a proper source. If someone put's on his blog that he is the amazing spiderman that actual would would be an extraordinary claim. If someone has written for news paper, magazines, and other News media and claims to be a journalist that is not an extraordinary claim. Furthermore his self published sources do not violate [[WP:BLPSELFPUB]]. The last thing I would like to make clear is that your comment about his current career borders a [[wp:blp]] violation. You might consider deleting that.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 18:43, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

::::I also feel the need to point out that your comment, "For someone to claim "journalist" as a profession, he should be employed as a staff member of a reputable publication." is not very well thought out. Freelance journalist who make their careers as journalists do not work as staff members of for reputable publications. I'm also new to the whole requirement that you work with a reputable publication as there are numerous journalists that do not. Though as for reputable Chip Bertlet has done work for The Denver Post, AP, and numerous others.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 22:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

~~=Biased Editing is Unbalancing this Entry with Criticism...Again=~~

~~{{request edit}}~~

~~Seriously, how many times do I have to object to the relentless attempts to emphasize criticism of me in this entry while removing numerous cites that document my work.~~

I have been a paid professional journalist since 1967. My byline has appeared in The New York Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Sun–Times, Des Moines Register, Columbia Journalism Review, Amnesty Now, Mother Jones, The Nation, The Progressive, New Internationalist, Tikkun, Chicago Reader, Chicago Lawyer, The Humanist, Greenpeace Magazine, Boston Phoenix, Pacific News Service, The Guardian (NY), WIN Magazine, In These Times, Boston Real Paper, CovertAction Information Bulletin, National Reporter, Liberation News Service, High Times, and Utne Reader among others.

~~As an independent scholar, here are some of my published book chapters and encyclopedia entries, most of which are verifiable on WorldCat:~~

Chip Berlet. 2014. “Heroes Know Which Villains to Kill: How Coded Rhetoric Incites Scripted Violence,” in Matthew Feldman and Paul Jackson (eds), Doublespeak: Rhetoric of the Far-Right Since 1945, Stuttgart: ibidem-Verlag.

~~Abby Scher and Chip Berlet, 2014. “The Tea Party Moment,” in Nella van Dyke and David S. Meyer, eds., Understanding the Tea Party Movement, Farnham and London: Ashgate.~~

Chip Berlet. 2013. “Repression, Civil Liberties, Right-Wingers, and Liberals: Resisting Counterinsurgency and Subversion Panics.” In Kristian Williams, Will Munger, and Lara Messersmith-Glavin, eds., Life During Wartime: Resisting Counterinsurgency, AK Press.

_______. 2013. “From Tea Parties to Militias: Between the Republican Party and the Insurgent Ultra-Right in the US.” In Sabine Von Mering and Timothy Wyman McCarty, eds., Right-wing Radicalism Today: Perspectives from Europe and the US. Routledge, Abingdon, UK, 2013.

_______. 2012. “Reframing Populist Resentments in the Tea Party Movement.” In Steep: The Precipitous Rise of the Tea Party. Lawrence Rosenthal and Christine Trost, eds. Berkeley: Univ. of California Press.

_______. 2011. “Protocols to the Left, Protocols to the Right: Conspiracism in American Political Discourse at the Turn of the Second Millennium.” In Richard Allen Landes, and Steven T. Katz, The Paranoid Apocalypse: A Hundred-year Retrospective on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. New York: New York Univ. Press.

~~_______. 2011. “Muckraking Gadflies Buzz Reality” In Ken Wachsberger, ed., Voices from the Underground: Insider Histories of~~

~~the Vietnam Era Underground Press, Part 1, East Lansing, MI: Michigan State Univ. Press, pp. 267-297.~~

_______. 2010. “The Roots of Anti-Obama Rhetoric.” In Donald Cunnigen, Marino A. Bruce, eds. Race in the Age of Obama, Vol.16, Research in Race and Ethnic Relations, Emerald Group Publishing Limited, pp. 301-319.

~~_______. 2009. “Violence and Public Policy,” in Criminology and Public Policy, special issue on terrorism, Vol. 8, Issue 3, (October), pp. 623-631.~~

_______. 2008. “The United States: Messianism, Apocalypticism, and Political Religion.” In Roger Griffin, Matthew Feldman, and John Tortice, eds., The Sacred in Twentieth Century Politics: Essays in Honour of Professor Stanley G. Payne, Basingstoke, UK: Palgrave Macmillan, pp. 221-257.

Hearst, Ernest, Chip Berlet, and Jack Porter. 2007. “Neo-Nazism.” Encyclopaedia Judaica, 2nd ed., vol. 15 of 22 vols. Eds. Michael Berenbaum and Fred Skolnik. Detroit: Macmillan Reference USA/Thomson Gale, pp. 74-82.

Chip Berlet. 2007. “The New Political Right in the United States: Reaction, Rollback, and Resentment.” In Michael Thompson, ed., Confronting the New Conservatism. The Rise of the Right in America. New York, NYU Press.

_______. 2005. “Christian Identity: The Apocalyptic Style, Political Religion, Palingenesis and Neo-Fascism.” In Roger Griffin, ed., Fascism, Totalitarianism, and Political Religion, London: Routledge, pp. 175-212.

_______. 2005. “When Alienation Turns Right: Populist Conspiracism, the Apocalyptic Style, and Neofascist Movements.” In Lauren Langman and Devorah Kalekin Fishman, eds., Trauma, Promise, and the Millennium: The Evolution of Alienation, Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefield, pp. 115-144.

~~Chip Berlet. 2004. “Mapping the Political Right: Gender and Race Oppression in Right-Wing Movements.” In Abby Ferber, ed., Home-Grown Hate: Gender and Organized Racism. New York: Routledge.~~

_______. 2004. “Anti-Masonic Conspiracy Theories: A Narrative Form of Demonization and Scapegoating.” In Arturo de Hoyos and S. Brent Morris, eds., Freemasonry in Context: History, Ritual, Controversy. Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefield.

~~_______. 2003. “Terminology: Use with Caution.” In Roger Griffin and Matthew Feldman, eds., Fascism, Vol. 5, Critical Concepts in Political Science. New York, NY: Routledge.~~

_______. 2003. “Apocalypticism,” “Report from Iron Mountain,” “Scaife, Richard Mellon,” “Secular Humanism.” Conspiracy Theories in American History: An Encyclopedia. Peter Knight, ed. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO.

~~_______. 2003. “Ku Klux Klan.” Encyclopedia of Religion and War. Gabriel Palner Fernandez, ed. (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge.~~

~~_______. 2002. “Encountering and Countering Political Repression.” In Mike Prokosch and Laura Raymond, eds., The Global~~

~~Activists Manual: Local Ways to Change the World. New York: Thunder Mouth Press/Nation Books (with United for a Fair Economy).~~

~~_______. 2002. “Surveillance Abuse.” Encyclopedia of Crime and Punishment. David Levinson, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.~~

_______. 2001. “Apocalypse,” “Nativism,” “Devil and Satan,” and “The Illuminati.” Encyclopedia of Fundamentalism. Brenda Brasher, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge

_______ (associate editor). 2000. “Apocalypse,” “Conspiracism,” “Demagogues,” “Demonization,” “Militia Movements,” “Populism,” “Survivalism,” Totalitarianism,” and “Year 2000.” Encyclopedia of Millennialism and Millennial Movements. Richard A. Landes, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge.

_______. 1998. “Following the Threads: A Work in Progress.” In Amy Elizabeth Ansell, ed., Unraveling the Right: The New Conservatism in American Thought and Politics. New York: Westview, pp. 17–40.

_______. 1998. “Who’s Mediating the Storm? Right-Wing Alternative Information Networks,” in Linda Kintz and Julia Lesage, eds., Culture, Media, and the Religious Right, Minneapolis: Univ. of Minnesota Press, pp. 249-273.

~~Seriously, this is tiresome and frankly a disgrace.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 02:27, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

~~===Cites to My Scholarly Work on Google Scholar===~~

~~[http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=aaLAzU4AAAAJ&hl=en Cites to My Scholarly Work on Google Scholar]~~

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 03:18, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

~~===As a journalist===~~

"Chip Berlet is a journalist and independent scholar studying rightwing social movements in the US. His writings on scapegoating, conspiracism, and apocalyptic aggression have appeared in popular and academic serials and books."

[http://books.google.com/books?id=7AwH5r-b3ZQC&pg=PT14&dq=%22chip+berlet%22+journalist&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AsuXU5e7JtO-sQTP9oCQCA&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22chip%20berlet%22%20journalist&f=false Sabine Von Mering and Timothy Wyman McCarty, eds., Right-wing Radicalism Today: Perspectives from Europe and the US. Routledge, Abingdon, UK]

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 03:32, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

~~===Typical bio blurb found online===~~

"Chip Berlet, an investigative reporter and scholar, has studied repression, right-wing movements, and political violence for over forty years. He was an associate editor of the Encyclopedia of Millennialism and Millennial Movements and recently authored the study “The United States: Messianism, Apocalypticism, and Political Religion” collected in The Sacred in Twentieth Century Politics. Berlet also coordinated and co-authored the revisions for the entry on “Neo-Nazism” in the new edition of the Encyclopaedia Judaica." [http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/04/part-one-why-bomb-the-boston-marathon/#.U5g2zfldVug San Diego Free Press][[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 11:01, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

~~===American Sociological Association===~~

~~Session Participant: Chip Berlet (Journalist)~~

~~Section on Collective Behavior and Social Movements Invited Session.~~

~~Social Movement Scholars as Public Intellectuals~~

~~Unit: Section Invited~~

~~Scheduled Time: Sat Aug 10 2013, 10:30 to 12:10pm~~

~~Session Submission Role: Panelist~~

~~The paper I presented at this session was revised for publication and appears as:~~

~~"Public Intellectuals, Scholars, Journalists, & Activism: Wearing Different Hats and~~

~~Juggling Different Ethical Mandates"~~

~~[http://www.hipatiapress.com/hpjournals/index.php/rimcis/article/view/954/886 in the international journal RIMCIS]~~

~~Other Scholarly Conference Papers~~

_______. 2011. “Bad ‘Banksters’ or Capitalism's Punch Line?” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, session on “The Resurrection of America's Radical Right,” Las Vegas, NV, August.

_______. 2010. “Reframing Resentments in the Tea Party Movement: How Right-Wing Populists use Demonization, Scapegoating, and Conspiracy Theories to Justify Apocalyptic Aggression.” Paper presented at the conference on Fractures, Alliances, and Mobilizations: Emerging Analyses of the Tea Party Movement at the Center for the Comparative Study of Right-Wing Movements, October 22.

_______. 2010. “Attacks against President Obama in the Right-Wing Media.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Thematic Session on “Countermovements against Citizen Rights,” Atlanta, GA, August.

_______. 2010. “From Tea Parties to Militias: Between the Republican Party and the Insurgent Ultra–Right in the United States.” Paper presented at the conference on the New Right-Wing Radicalism: A Transatlantic Perspective, Center for German and European Studies, Brandeis University, April 28.

_______. 2005. “Protocols to the Left, Protocols to the Right: Conspiracism in American Political Discourse at the Turn of the Second Millennium.” Paper presented at the conference: Reconsidering “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”: 100 Years after the Forgery, The Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies, Boston University, October 30-31.

Brenda E. Brasher and Chip Berlet. 2004. “Imagining Satan: Modern Christian Right Print Culture as an Apocalyptic Master Frame. Paper presented at the Conference on Religion and the Culture of Print in America, Center for the History of Print Culture in Modern America, Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison, September 10-11.

~~Chip Berlet. 2001. “When Hate Went Online.” Paper presented at the Northeast Sociological Association, Spring Conference, Fairfield, CT: Sacred Heart University, April 28. (Revised July 4, 2008).~~

_______. 1999. “Hate Crimes, Hate Groups, and Racial Tension in an Integrating Chicago Neighborhood, 1978-1988.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Chicago, IL, August.

_______. 1998. “Y2K and Millennial Pinball: How Y2K Shapes Survivalism in the US Christian Right, Patriot and Armed Militia Movements, and Far Right.” Paper presented at the annual symposium, Center for Millennial Studies, Boston University, December.

_______. 1998. “Mad as Hell: Right–wing Populism, Fascism, and Apocalyptic Millennialism.” Paper presented at the 14th World Congress of Sociology (XIVe Congrès Mondial de Sociologie), International Sociological Association, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

_______. 1998. “The Ideological Weaponry of the American Right: ‘Dangerous Classes’ and ‘Welfare Queens’ (L’arsenal idéologique de la droite américaine: «classes dangereuses» et «welfare queens»). Paper presented at the international symposium, The “American Model:” an Hegemonic Perspective for the End of the Millennium?, (Le «modèle américain»: une perspective hégémonique pour la fin du millénaire?), Group Regards Critiques, Univ. of Lausanne, Switzerland, May 12.

_______. 1997. “Fascism’s Franchises: Stating the Differences from Movement to Totalitarian Government.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Toronto, Canada, August.

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 13:18, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

~~==How Structural Bias and Selective Framing Trumps Fairness and Accuracy in this Entry==~~

A considerable portion of this entry is biased by the selection of my publications and public life that focus on controversies which play a relatively small role in my professional life as a journalist, scholar, and researcher. In this way the entry allows biased editors to quote at length from a relative handful of critics in a way that suggests that these controversies and criticisms accurately reflect the totality of my work and the fact that it is generally respected by my colleagues in journalism, scholarship, and research. The criticisms generally come from a few sets of tendencies:

~~# Conspiracy theorists~~

~~# Defenders of persons or groups I have criticized~~

~~# Authors who despise anyone on the political left as an “extremist.”~~

~~# Red-baiters who make false allegations about me as supporting Stalinism, Leninism, Communism, Totalitarianism, etc.~~

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 13:33, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

:Keep in mind the BLP policies, but let ask you to speak more directly. Which of these are sources we can disqualify, based off which relevnet wikipedia policy,and why do you feel that policy applies to said sources?[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 01:52, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

~~==RfC: Is this entry fair and accurate or biased?==~~

~~{{rfc|hist|rfcid=FE0ADBA}}~~

~~Is there a Structural Bias and Dependence on Selective Framing?~~

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 13:48, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

*'''Comments'''--- The lead is overly long and detailed for an article of such modest length. Otherwise the article looks OK to me except for the final portion of the article starting with Ties and Lies section. In this one sentence section and the sections below I see what appears to be cherry picking of sources and info added only to create drama and controversy by giving undue weight to minor aspects of a very full and prestigious career. PS I also think the photo is inappropriate as well.-- — [[User:Keithbob|Keithbob]] • [[User_ talk:Keithbob|Talk]] • 14:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

~~== It is requested that an edit be made to this article? ==~~

14,402 keystrokes later, I'm still not seeing a specific request for an edit here. If you want the article to read like a promotional blurb that you can use for commercial purposes (I see that you have helpfully included some examples), I think that would be a bad idea. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 15:49, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

~~Please refrain from personal attacks and snide comments on the talk page. Thank you.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 23:30, 11 June 2014 (UTC)~~

The request for needed edits is stated above based on the RFC question: Is this entry fair and accurate or biased due to a structural bias and dependence on selective framing? Perhaps we could start with a simple yes or no?[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 23:40, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

~~:OK, I'll say "yes." [[User:Joe Bodacious|Joe Bodacious]] ([[User talk:Joe Bodacious|talk]]) 00:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)~~

~~::My mistake. Apologies.~~

~~:::A: This entry is fair and accurate~~

~~:::B: This entry is biased due to a structural bias and dependence on selective framing~~

~~::A bit of cooperation would be appreciated.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 01:34, 12 June 2014 (UTC)~~

:::I think I can help with at least some of your request. I have a busy string of real life assignments, then a few days of relative peace. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 02:01, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

~~::Thanks. I appreciate it. [[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 03:04, 12 June 2014 (UTC)~~

:::I'd agree that whoever selectively framed that weird picture of you with the friggin' turtle wasn't doing you any favors. [[User:Badmintonhist|Badmintonhist]] ([[User talk:Badmintonhist|talk]]) 03:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

:I think that the article is too promotional in tone. Does that make me a "B"? I also think we should lose the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_Berlet_bibliography bibliography]. No other Wikipedia BLP has anything like that. [[User:Waalkes|Waalkes]] ([[User talk:Waalkes|talk]]) 06:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

::PLEASE remove the bibliography page. It embarrasses me. Note that it served as a ploy to delete from this page links to my online bibliography and bio material at [http://www.chipberlet.net/ my website][[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 21:00, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

:::I don't agree with deleting the bibliography page.Perhaps merging it with this page. But I see no reason to delete it.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 05:09, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

:::Respectfully, Mr Berlet, your embarrassment isn't high on my level of concern nor should it be on any other editors. [[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 05:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

::::Snide comments are not constructive. Please note that my entry is the product of repeated attacks by pro-LaRouchite editors (and others from my list of critics above), many of whom were sanctioned or banned over many years through normal Wikipedia review & mediation processes. My embarrassment is due to the fact that there is no reason I should have a separate bibliography page. It seems grandiose to me. I did not create it. [http://www.chipberlet.net/bio/berlet_articles.html A frequently updated bibliography already exists here].[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 10:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

:::::That wasn't a snide comment. Your whining is neither constructive or productive. You are hardly the first author with a split biblio. The user that split your biblio got banned for being a sock. However I don't see this edit in question being in bad faith. The answer would be to maybe merge, but you feelings on grandiosity and embarassment aren't a reason to do so.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 16:19, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

~~== Overy promotional. ==~~

Taken a load of self-referenced promo stuff out. No references as to why it was notable or relevant. Basically a list of 'Chip says this, Chip thinks that' almost all referenced to Chip himself. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 20:05, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

::Please note that I did not insert that "self-referenced promo stuff", and while it was proper to delete it, the entry now primarily consists of references to obscure incidents and the views of critics while failing to include easily found sources of information about my 40 year career as a journalist, investigative reporter, and independent scholar. 20:58, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

:::For what its worth, the *only* reason I left those for the moment was they had sources unrelated to the subject. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 21:04, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

~~==Investigative Journalist & Scholar - Reputable Cites==~~

~~It is relatively easy to find reputable citations for these descriptions.~~

~~[https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=berlet+investigative&tbm=bks click here for reputable citations in books]~~

~~See the Preface to Nella van Dyke and David S. Meyer, eds., ''Understanding the Tea Party Movement'', Farnham and London: Ashgate, 2014.~~

[http://convention2.allacademic.com/one/asa/asa13/index.php?click_key=1&cmd=Multi+Search+Load+Person&people_id=3507682&PHPSESSID=17q34d2hm32bgu2gp2ghor1br4 See American Sociological Association. Annual Meeting-2013] Session Participant: Chip Berlet (Journalist); Section on Collective Behavior and Social Movements Invited Session: "Social Movement Scholars as Public Intellectuals"

The paper I presented at this session was revised for publication and appears as: "Public Intellectuals, Scholars, Journalists, & Activism: Wearing Different Hats and Juggling Different Ethical Mandates" [http://www.hipatiapress.com/hpjournals/index.php/rimcis/article/view/954/886 in the international journal RIMCIS] [[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 12:40, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

~~==Let's stick to unbiased edits==~~

Badmintonhist (talk | contribs)‎ . . (15,179 bytes) (-426)‎ . . (Deleted material in lead about the recruiting of farmers in the Midwest into white supremacist groups because I don't see anything about this in body of article.) (undo) To delete something from the lead and not place it in the body of the article gives the impression of bias and bad faith. Let's not raise that issue. Just move it to the body of the article since it is properly cited.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 02:32, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

:Place it where in the body of the article? In what context and with what supporting facts? What we had there was the floating presumed fact that you were ''"known as one of the first researchers to have drawn attention to the efforts by white supremacist and antisemitic groups to recruit farmers in the Midwestern United States in the 1970s anf 1980s,"'' sourced to a 21 year old article that is apparently unavailable on the internet. There was no cogent argument for including this in the lead as was/is. As for including it in the body we should have supporting facts for it. When and in what writings did you "draw attention" to this phenomenon? What reliable sources reported on your findings? [[User:Badmintonhist|Badmintonhist]] ([[User talk:Badmintonhist|talk]]) 19:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

::A 21 year old article and it's not availible on the internet? That's interesting. What's interesting is that is not relevent. However You'll never believe what I found on the internet with out any real effort. "Bridging chasms of race and hate" by Jason Berry. I found it in the archives of the publisher. [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/tampabay/results.html?hidden01=articles&QryTxt=Bridging+chasms+of+race+and+hate&choices=archive Would you look at that?] But then there's a pay wall. But I truly am fascinated to hear your explanantion of how a 21 year old article that isn't availible on the internet is not a reliable source. Wait is not good now because it's behind a paywall?[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 20:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

:::I congratulate you for going this far. Now perhaps you can complete the job by showing us where the ''Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg Times'' article tells us that Mr. Berlet is "known as" a pioneer in drawing attention to the recruitment of Midwestern farmers into racist and and antisemitic groups. Also, if this is feat is so prominent as to go into the lead of our Berlet bio, perhaps the ''TB Times'' and other reliable sources have some details about the the effort. [[User:Badmintonhist|Badmintonhist]] ([[User talk:Badmintonhist|talk]]) 22:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

::::Why would I do that? You can read the source yourself. I gave you a link above. Why are you going on about the lead exactly? 2 editors have already said to stick in the body of the article. More details? Well if the article that you are about to read contains it maybe that is enough. We'll just have to wait and see. Then if you need more you could do something unsual and put effort in. You could ask Mr Bertlet if he's aware of any further reliable sources on this subject. But again that if it needs more.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 22:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

~~==This article now focuses on the negative and critics.==~~

This article is a disgrace. It is now almost totally written from the point of view of critics. How many times over how many years do I have to waste time doing what Wikipedia claims it does--create fair unbiased entries?[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 02:35, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

:This seems to be an often used but rarely useful comment from you. The major thing that needs to be taken care of immeadiately is that there are no BLP violations. Any other issues can be taken care eventually. The goal of wikipedia is not to finish this article today but to do so eventually.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 19:23, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

~~::And I'm not sure if I can answer your other question without it being a BLP violation.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 19:24, 28 June 2014 (UTC)~~

:::[[Wikipedia:General_disclaimer|what Wikipedia actually claims]]. -- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom]] 02:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

::{{u|Serialjoepsycho}}, note the comments on eventualism in [[WP:BLP#Balance]]. I have no idea whether critical views are disproportionately represented in the article as it stands, but if they are, it should be fixed as a matter of urgency by including independent third-party sources expressing more positive viewpoints. [[User:Jayen466|Andreas]] [[User_Talk:Jayen466|JN]][[Special:Contributions/Jayen466|466]] 10:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

:::This complaint are very broad. They mirror the complaints of this user and also another former user cberlet. The only area as of now that seems to have a overly negative and unbalanced section is "reception". That is not the total article and editors have responded quickly. And as I did say, If it doesn't relate to a BLP issue it can be taken care of eventually.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 18:55, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

~~== lead ==~~

Journalists know the lead is for a ''simple synopsis of an article'' in order for a reader to see pretty much what is covered in that article - not for an ''exhaustive'' list of material in the article. I left in the PRA SPS reference to his being a worker there -- but that source is not of much value for anything else at all. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Collect|contribs]]) 07:55, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

:I note the extensive laundry list of "occupations" was restored without discussion here, and that the SPS source was still in the lead. If a source would not be RS for a claim in the body of an article, it is not RS for a claim in the lead of a bLP. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 21:35, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

::I'm not exactly sure which jobs you are complaining about and how they would be exceptional claims or violate any other portion of [[WP:SELFPUB]] or [[WP:SPS]].[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 22:40, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

::It is not a "laundry list" to specifically mention what Berlet is notable for studying - extreme right-wing movements. [[User:NorthBySouthBaranof|NorthBySouthBaranof]] ([[User talk:NorthBySouthBaranof|talk]]) 23:06, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

~~:::Exactly, and I've restored it. Collect had no rational basis for his edits. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 08:32, 30 June 2014 (UTC)~~

::::{{u|Viriditas}}, is there a reason you deleted the npov template? As long as the reception section only contains criticism, I seriously doubt that the article could be said to be neutral. It seems implausible to me that someone as widely published should never have had a good word said about him. [[User:Jayen466|Andreas]] [[User_Talk:Jayen466|JN]][[Special:Contributions/Jayen466|466]] 19:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

~~:::::It was deleted by mistake. Instead of tagging, can you just fix the section? [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 19:23, 30 June 2014 (UTC)~~

::::::I removed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chip_Berlet&diff=prev&oldid=615099482 this] to appeal to your concerns. [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] ([[User talk:Viriditas|talk]]) 02:43, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Yes, thanks, that was one of the sections I thought was over the top. Very weak allegations rather than analytical criticisms. I have ordered some books through interlibrary loan that have criticisms by scholars who make some sharp but valid points.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 03:09, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::::I don't contest the removal. I had questions in my mind of undue weight with the high focus on Wilcox. Still I have to question if your comments are fair, Chip. The criticism that remains is about your perceived technique of "Links and ties". The criticism removed seems to use a links and ties method. But again that's not to contest it's removal. You have come out publicly about Wilcox. I wonder if your criticism is fair. But I also have to add there is no reason to only add only Criticism. This is a reception subtopic. Praise can also be added. You may have also been given a Mixture of praise and Criticism that can be added. For NPOV a balance of both would be needed. As this article is a BLP NPOV is exceedingly important.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 04:54, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::If folks want to restore the criticism of Laird Wilcox I have no objection. I appreciate the irony of Wilcox using the same method criticized in his criticism. Yet I note that I have two books, not three, and both [http://communitychangeinc.org/node/72 Right-Wing Populism in America and Eyes Right received the Myers Award which led to the Drylongso Award].[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 12:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::::::::I note that your do not object to the Wilcox material - and that there is no "consensus" that the Wilcox opinions cited as such ought not be in this BLP. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 15:00, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::::::::Well I agree with the removal just on different grounds. I think your awards have a place in the article. I'm not sure though they offer meaningful commentary on your reception. I'm not sure what the Myers award is but believe you are talking Drylongso award from CCI. This is not to lessen the prestige of the awards. Just all that is communicable is that you won them. Wilcox comments are more perceptible. I'm not sure mentioning your awards does anything to balance the criticism.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 12:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

~~===Serious Scholar Critics===~~

~~Find some serious specific criticism of my work regarding the Militia Movement in this cite:~~

Chermak, Steven M. (2002). Searching for a Demon: The Media Construction of the Militia Movement. UPNE. p. 92. ISBN 9781555535414. Also criticisms in Fenster, Mark. 1999. Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press; and Durham, Martin 2000. The Christian Right, the Far Right and the Boundaries of American Conservatism. Manchester, England: Manchester University Press.00:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 00:58, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

:Do you happen to have a link to "Bridging chasms of race and hate" that isn't behind a paywall or a copy of it that you can share without violating any copyright law? I'd also like to say this is a more productive use of your time than complaining about the state of this page. I do to say though that readability could definitely become an issue if you keep opening a new topic or subtopic everytime you make a post especially if the topic is being discussed in different area. Please take that into consideration.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 03:13, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

::Sorry about proliferating topics and subtopics. I will try to restrain my angst. :-) I will track down some hard copy or online archive material by critics and post the wording and cites here. Feel free to re-arrange my proliferated topicomania.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 12:14, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Although Chip's press releases tout him as a crusader against the Right, in the real world he is also known for persecuting Leftists who have "incorrect associations." I think the article should include some of the comments from Daniel Brandt [http://www.namebase.org/news01.html] and Ace Hayes [http://www.geocities.ws/berletwatch/ace.htm]. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 13:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

::Daniel Brandt and Ace Hayes are well known conspiracy theorists with marginal publications. The issue regarding Brandt and L. Fletcher Prouty was that he allowed his book Secret Team to be republished by a notorious Holocaust Denial outfit run by one of the leading antisemites in the world.[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 03:09, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

:::I will second that neither of those sources are close to being acceptable for [[WP:BLP|claims about a living person]]. -- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom]] 05:31, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::::I agree as well. But even if those two people were reliable sources, Your choice of source material would be questionable. Brandt's is self published. Hayes material can't be authenticated. The page with Hayes material may be a copyright violation which would prevent us from linking Under [[WP:ELNEVER]][[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 11:00, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Chip's denunciation of Brandt for being previously associated with Fletcher Prouty, who is denounced for once having made a business transaction with an organization run by an antisemite, seems like a textbook example of the "links and ties" technique. It's strictly guilt by association to avoid responding to the points made by Brandt. By the way, doesn't Brandt get any BLP protection on this talk page? As far as Chip's attacks on leftists, here is another source, Cult Rapture: Revelations of the Apocalyptic Mind by Adam Parfrey, Portland, OR : Feral House, ©1995, p 327:

:"Another non-profit organization media star, Political Research Associate's John Foster "Chip" Berlet, has become something of a ubiquitous presence on establishment news shows and so-called progressive magazines, as an expert on the "extreme right-wing." Berlet stumps for the division of anti-establishment rightists and leftists at a time when even Republicans see the "Democratic" president as "Bush Lite." His pooh-poohing of "conspiracy theories" serves to question government skeptics rather than the government itself. Even though he's a prolific contributor to leftist magazines, Berlet's passionate defenses of Janet Reno and Bill Clinton protect rather than "question authority." Targets of Berlet's smears and criticism include Daniel Sheehan of the Christic Institute, Daniel Brandt, whose NameBase software is a leading resource for tracking government misdeeds, and Ace Hayes, the prolific Portland-area researcher. Both Brandt and Hayes insist that Berlet's past associations seem to render him a chip off of John Foster Dulles' block. Hayes and Brandt contend that the true division in the country is not between left and right, but between up and down, the haves vs. the have-nots." [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 15:28, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

~~Also, can anyone explain to me how "links and ties" is any different than "conspiracy theories"? [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 15:35, 1 July 2014 (UTC)~~

~~::Links and ties being an opinion of Wilcox. Wilcox actually being a notable commentator.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 20:56, 1 July 2014 (UTC)~~

== Secondary sources and BLP problems ==

~~===Concise Published Bio Data from 2004===~~

~~"Chip Berlet is Senior Analyst at Political Research Associates (PRA), a~~

~~progressive think tank near Boston. He is coauthor, with Matthew N. Lyons,~~

~~of Right-Wing Populism in America (2000) and editor of Eyes Right! (1995).~~

~~Both books received the Gustavus Myers Center award for the study of bigotry~~

~~and human rights in North America. Berlet has studied and written~~

~~about the U.S. political right for over twenty-five years, with articles~~

~~appearing in academic books and journals; popular magazines, including the~~

~~Progressive and the Nation; and daily newspapers,such as the New York Times,~~

~~the Boston Globe, and the Chicago Sun-Times. From 1977 to 1987 he worked~~

~~in a multiracial community group organizing against a neo-Nazi/Ku Klux~~

~~Klan movement that sought to block the integration of a southwest Chicago~~

~~neighborhood." in Ferber, Abby L. ed. 2004. Home-Grown Hate:~~

~~Gender and Organized Racism. New York, NY: Routledge, p. 269.~~

This article was substantially cleaned up during the spring, but now it's creeping back to being a mirror site for Berlet's own websites. If Berlet said something worth putting in Wikipedia, it will also be covered in secondary sources, so people should stop putting in stuff sourced only to Berlet. This is particularly the case for Berlet's accusations against public figures, even LaRouche: BLP policy says If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 16:08, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

~~Note that I have two books in print, not three See also~~

~~[http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3AChip+Berlet&qt=advanced&dblist=638#x0%253Aartchap-format Selected journal articles at WorldCat]~~

:It is easy to find third party sources that describe the LaRouchites as antisemitic and anti-Jewish, and LaRouche himself an antisemite, a neofascist, a neonazi, and even a "small time Hitler". It is also easy to find third party sources that describe in detail LaRouche's conviction for financial and tax crimes. That I have written about these facts is itself a fact that is easy to document. What is the issue here?[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 17:24, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

~~[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 01:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)~~

::As [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] said, third-party sources are needed to establish the notability of your views. If you wrote that your favorite cookies are chocolate chip - well, Wikipedia doesn't really care. --[[User:NeilN|NeilN]] [[User talk:NeilN|talk to me]] 18:25, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Or more accurately, since this article is about Chip not LaRouche, to show that his views on LaRouche are significant to this article, which I have now done. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 20:13, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:I agree that if someone said something, that we should use secondary or tertiary sources that report it, as was done with the mention of Ralph Nader. However the claims made about LaRouche are mentioned in ''Hate Crimes: A Reference Handbook'', pp. 88-89, which is already used as a source in the article. I will therefore restore the text and add this source. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 18:17, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

:I'm sorry, Mr. Berlet, but it really does look a little silly to have you on the talk page requesting that Wikipedia base your bio on commercial ad copy. [[User:Joe Bodacious|Joe Bodacious]] ([[User talk:Joe Bodacious|talk]]) 01:57, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

::Actually, the citation you used was not from the source per se. It is from a bio of Berlet which appears in the preface, a bio which was probably provided by Berlet. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 19:49, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

:::A [[preface]] "is an introduction to a book...written by the work's author." No idea why you not consider prefaces to have the same reliability as the books. Do you have any policies or guidelines? And who cares where sources get their informaton? We expect writers of reliable sources to use judgment, fact-checking, double-sourcing, etc. We ourselves do not do that, but rely on why reliable sources report. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 21:02, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

::What are you calling commercial ad copy? His excerpt from the Book? Above someone is complaining about an SPS being used when honestly there no real controversy over his career claims. Hell go read above where someone claims that he can't claim to be a journalist because he never worked for a reputable publication on staff. That ignored of course his career working for numerous reputable publications. It also discounts the work numerous freelancers. There was a request above for him to provide some Non-sps reliable sources that reference his work. If you have an issue with the sources could you drop the trash talk and get to the point about what is wrong with them? Mr Berlet is that the Abby Ferber with the PHD in Sociology?[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 02:26, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

~~:That link shows 32 books.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 02:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)~~

:::Please just call me Chip. We all are all Wikipedians. Abby Ferber has a Ph.D. in Sociology and is Professor of Sociology at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Routledge is a well-known publisher of scholarly books. I rather liked the turtle photo, but I will round up some open source photos and plop them on the Commons. Thanks to everyone trying to improve this page and make it align with Wikipedia standards. ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 12:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

~~== opinions sourced and cited as opinions ==~~

I have just modified {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Chip Berlet]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=750978609 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:

Can properly belong in a BLP. Opinion cited to named authors from the "Washington Times" was removed with an edit summary of ''Per NPOV concerns on talk, this claim from the Washington Times is extreme in and of itself. Removed''. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chip_Berlet&diff=prev&oldid=615099482]

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050106165725/http://www.uua.org/ga/ga99/418.html to http://www.uua.org/ga/ga99/418.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).

~~That editor than asserted that removal of the opinion was per consensus here -- ''Check the talk page. There is consensus to remove it''.~~

Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''InternetArchiveBot''']] ([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]]) 16:57, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

:[[User:GangofOne|GangofOne]] ([[User talk:GangofOne|talk]]) 22:02, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

I find ''no such consensus'' on this talk page, and suggest that it is improper to remove material which one editor describes as "extreme" where no such discussion is extant here. Cheers -- but when one asserts "consensus" and such a consensus does not exist, one risks being devalued for ones opinions. I oppose "criticism" which is not properly ascribed and cited as opinion, but where it ''is'' properly cited and ascribed, it is reasonable to include. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 13:17, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

~~:Scroll up to the talk page section titled lead. There's a small consensus on it's removal. [[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 13:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC)~~

::And I would note that I demur and a "small consensus" is worth its weight in air <g>. By the way, the material is ''not'' in the lead at all. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 14:57, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

~~:::I agree. Seems that I read in one of the rules that material should be kept unless it violates a policy. [[User:55 Gators|55 Gators]] ([[User talk:55 Gators|talk]]) 15:31, 1 July 2014 (UTC)~~

::::It carries enough weight to make the change. Your objection is noted. Revert it and join the conversation on it.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

:While [[Laird Wilcox]] was a prominent expert on "extremism" in the 80s, his more recent research receives little attention, and are restricted to sources like the ''Washington Times,'' and self-published works. The proper place for his comments is Wilcox's own article, where they are well presented. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 21:55, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

::Is he "noted in his field"? ''Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.[7]'' seems to be the applicable part of policy here. Cheers. [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 22:23, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I have just modified one external link on [[Chip Berlet]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=759593068 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:

* The Wilcox opinion, is clearly labeled as such. I don't see anything remotely contentious that warrants a BLP removal. As far as criticism, it is fairly mild. Nor is the source, the Washington Times, impeached because they are owned by the "moonies". In fact, I'd appreciate it if people would stop referring to them as such, as it is clearly a pejorative term. We don't call Roma "gypsies", black people "niggers", jews "bagel biters" or a million other insulting phrases. [[User:Two kinds of pork|Two kinds of pork]] ([[User talk:Two kinds of pork|talk]]) 01:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060715145651/http://www.wpunj.edu:80/newpol/issue29/hawkin29.htm to http://www.wpunj.edu/newpol/issue29/hawkin29.htm

** But the issue is how significant opinions reported in the ''Washington Times'' are. Incidentally, please do not use offensive racial epithets on talk pages. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 02:17, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

:::I have no love for the ''Washington Times'', but it is certainly no worse as a source than the rest of what is used in this article. A little over a third of the source citations are still to articles by Berlet or his organizations. It seems to be difficult to find commentary on Berlet that doesn't come from sources connected to the subject. [[User:Joe Bodacious|Joe Bodacious]] ([[User talk:Joe Bodacious|talk]]) 02:51, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

::::There is no commentary on Berlet except that provided by Laird Wilcox. Lot's of edtiors who defend groups targeted by Berlet and other experts on right-wing extremism think that neutrality means providing parity between experts and their subjects. But it does not. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 03:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::''There is no commentary on Berlet except that provided by Laird Wilcox'' -- I don't a problem with this. Wilcox is a subject matter expert, that is undeniable. Are there more subject matter experts with opinions? I'm not fond of using terms like I did above, however there are far too many editors who think "moonie" is ok. Those that have and read my comment, welcome to the proverbial brick.[[User:Two kinds of pork|Two kinds of pork]] ([[User talk:Two kinds of pork|talk]]) 04:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::Yes and no one complains about using his comments that were published in the book edited by [[Jeffrey Kaplan (academic)|Jeffrey Kaplan]] and Heléne Lööw. We just draw the line when he leaves the academic realm and talks to a former member of an defender of a neo-confederate hate group (according to the SPLC) writing for a Unification Church-owned newspaper of all things. I mean, how far from the mainstream is that? You still have not said whether the conversation was part of an editorial (and hence not rs) or part of an article. Do you think that writers of serious encyclopedias (or serious anything) comb through the ''Washington Times'' except to learn about the people who publish it? [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 05:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

:good work, BotBrain. [[User:GangofOne|GangofOne]] ([[User talk:GangofOne|talk]]) 21:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

::::::::In short -- ''TFD does not like "Moonies"'' despite the fact the topic has naught to do with the Moonies whatsoever, and the interview should stand on its own unless the Moonies falsified it. If that is the case, say so. Otherwise "IDONTLIKETHEM" is all I see here. did that paper misquote Berlet or not? [[User:Collect|Collect]] ([[User talk:Collect|talk]]) 11:53, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

{{od}}I actually just question the over reliance on Wilcox. Which overall isn't a major complaint. It probably would be if it continued further but would depend on extent. The only issue of parity I see personally is the absence of mixed reception or praise.[[User:Serialjoepsycho|Serialjoepsycho]] ([[User talk:Serialjoepsycho|talk]]) 12:36, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

==Update Request==

Collect, I never called them that. In fact you and Two kinds of pork are the only editors to call them that on this talk page. However, I do not think that views expressed only in a Unification Church paper carry any weight. And the same applies to any publication outside the mainstream. Mainstream sources of course carry minority views, and in fact I have no objection to reporting them. Weight and rs are of course two different policies. It may be that the story is rs - that depends on whether it is a news article or an editorial, which would be the case even if it were in the ''New York Times''. So far you have not said which it is. [[User:The Four Deuces|TFD]] ([[User talk:The Four Deuces|talk]]) 14:25, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Admitted self-serving request warning:

https://www.crcpress.com/Trumping-Democracy-From-Reagan-to-the-Alt-Right/Berlet/p/book/9781138212497

I have a new edited collection that was just published. :-)

In penance I will go update a few pages that have no connection to me.

--[[User:Chip.berlet|Chip.berlet]] ([[User talk:Chip.berlet|talk]]) 15:45, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

:{{re|Chip.berlet}} seems to be my week to update bibliographies. I'ved added it to your bibliography article. [[User:Doug Weller|Doug Weller]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 17:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

::[[User:Doug Weller|@Doug Weller]] 🌹 [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:D79:3EC:98F1:C7BE:A42A:7384|2607:FB91:D79:3EC:98F1:C7BE:A42A:7384]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:D79:3EC:98F1:C7BE:A42A:7384|talk]]) 21:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

::[[User:Doug Weller|@Doug Weller]] Thanks [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:D79:3EC:2819:947A:A6EA:3D44|2607:FB91:D79:3EC:2819:947A:A6EA:3D44]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:D79:3EC:2819:947A:A6EA:3D44|talk]]) 21:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)