Talk:Chip Berlet - Wikipedia

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Here's the text from Wilcox that supports the section that somebody deleted:

Although mainstream figures are legitimately concerned with the LaRouche organization, a good number of his harshest detractors come from extremist ranks themselves. A writer who has spent considerable time on LaRouche is John Foster "Chip" Berlet, of Political Research Associates (PRA) in Boston. His articles on LaRouche go back into the 1970s. Berlet is also a veteran of the 1960s student left, and currently serves as the National Lawyers Guild (NLG) representative to the National Committee Against Repressive Legislation. Harvey Klehr confirms:

"The NLG is an affiliate of the Soviet-controlled International Association of Democratic Lawyers (IADL), founded in 1946. Expelled from France in 1949, the IADL is now headquartered in Brussels.Over the years it has supported every twist and turn in Soviet foreign policy, including the invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan.The American Association of Jurists, the regional affiliate of the IADL, is headquartered in Havana.Its president, Ann Fagan Ginger, is a long-time NLG activist." 31

In 1987, when Berlet moved with his organization to Boston from Chicago, the Chicago Area Friends of Albania gave him a special sendoff, noting that, "Chip was one of our founding members, and a steadfast friend of Albania through thick and thin." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 55 Gators (talk • contribs) 15:34, 6 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

This is synthesis. The source does not say that Berlet was doing anything extremist. It says he was a member of a group, then it says that the group was doing certain things. Which does not mean that Berlet was doing those things. Binksternet (talk) 15:59, 6 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

No, it isn't, Binksternet. The copy that you've twice deleted summarizes the point that George and Wilcox make, though it should probably be reworded for clarity. Whether or not Berlet was actively doing all the things that the NLG and CAFA were doing is irrelevant. He was a member of the organizations which is what the deleted copy states.Badmintonhist (talk) 18:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The deleted copy says that Berlet was a member, and then it tries to implicate Berlet with things that the organization did. This gets Berlet's involvement quite wrong. For instance, the Chicago Area Friends of Albania is a group Berlet co-founded so that he could support the Albanian people, who were going through a rough time. He researched the problem of political repression in Albania through his group contacts. Berlet worked against anti-democratic Stalinists through the group, a fairly centrist stance which is exactly opposite of what your text is trying to imply: that he is an extremist. Binksternet (talk) 06:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Binksternet, your beef apparently has more to do with the George/Wilcox "take" on Berlet in the first place than on the editorial summary of that take (though, on second glance, I don't see where George and Wilcox directly call the "Friends of Albania" a Communist front). So your contention here is less about verification or synthesis than it is about the reliability of George/Wilcox. Do you have anything here beyond your own WP:OR with which to impeach George and Wilcox? Badmintonhist (talk) 15:08, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The material that was deleted doesn't make any particular allegations about the groups that Berlet belonged to, it simply says he was a member. The source says unambiguously that Berlet "comes from extremist ranks." 55 Gators (talk) 15:46, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wilcox and George do not describe any activities of Berlet with regard to the groups he has been associated with. They do not say Berlet supported the Soviets (which he did not). They do not say that Berlet was anything but a guy coming from the extreme left:

Although mainstream figures are legitimately concerned with the LaRouche organization, a good number of his harshest detractors come from extremist ranks themselves. A writer who has spent considerable time on LaRouche is John Foster "Chip" Berlet, of Political Research Associates (PRA) in Boston. His articles on LaRouche go back into the 1970s. Berlet is also a veteran of the 1960s student left, and currently serves as the National Lawyers Guild (NLG) representative to the National Committee Against Repressive Legislation.

After that bit, Wilcox and George write further about the NLG, but without mentioning Berlet:

Harvey Klehr confirms: "The NLG is an affiliate of the Soviet-controlled International Association of Democratic Lawyers (IADL), founded in 1946. Expelled from France in 1949, the IADL is now headquartered in Brussels. Over the years it has supported every twist and turn in Soviet foreign policy, including the invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan. The American Association of Jurists, the regional affiliate of the IADL, is headquartered in Havana. Its president, Ann Fagan Ginger, is a long-time NLG activist."

Wilcox and George quote a party invitation which says that Berlet was "a steadfast friend of Albania through thick and thin", which he was—a friend to the Albanian people, not to the repressive Soviet-controlled Albanian government.

Finally, Wilcox and George wind up with a damning indictment of LaRouche groups, saying that the groups have a "primary evil" in "how they treat their opponents and in the vision they maintain of the civil liberties of all Americans. Here the antidemocratic and anti-civil libertarian nature of LaRouche and his followers is manifest, and it is primarily on these grounds that they should be opposed."

Thus we cannot synthesize a position not taken overtly by Wilcox and George. As well, we cannot misrepresent Wilcox and George as being opposed to Berlet rather than being opposed to the LaRouche organization. Binksternet (talk) 16:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

The fact that Wilcox and George oppose the Larouche cult can certainly be included in a reworked edit but so, OBVIOUSLY, should Berlet's membership in the National Lawyers Guild. That's the primary evidence Wilcox and George present for Berlet being "a guy coming from the extreme left." There's no synthesis here at all. Badmintonhist (talk) 17:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Klehr is quoted about how the NLG is "an affiliate" of the IADL, with the only stated connection being Ann Fagan Ginger's activism in both the IADL and NLG. Nothing here says the NLG is extremist. In fact, most observers call the NLG liberal, progressive or leftist—a much milder position. Berlet's involvement in the NLG is as a liaison to the National Committee Against Repressive Legislation, a group formed to fight McCarthyism. Wilcox and George leave the reader wondering whether it was Berlet's 1960s activism which deserves the label "extremist", or his later NLG membership. We cannot decide ourselves what makes him "extremist" when it is not clear. Binksternet (talk) 18:09, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

My re-write was much closer to the source than Binksternet's. And why am I receiving a warning on my personal talk page about "Edit warring" from the guy who has undone every one of my edits? Is that the pot calling the kettle black? 55 Gators (talk) 18:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Those warnings are just Binksternet being Binksternet. As for the substance here, the whole reason for George and Wilcox bringing up Berlet's NLG membership is to demonstrate Berlet's own radical, front-organization roots; as you might put it, Gators, "the pot calling the kettle black." Badmintonhist (talk) 18:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

There has been a tussle over whether Berlet is an investigative journalist, an advocacy journalist, or something else. There is no source for either kind of journalist cited in the article. It does say that he once worked for High Times, which would make him an advocacy journalist, but that was a long time ago. According to his blog, he's a "human rights activist." That could be considered a contentious statement from a self-published source, but it's better than nothing. Waalkes (talk) 18:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Tussle? Do tell. Yes he once wrote an article for hightimes. There's this blue link at the bottom that links to a wiki page that contains his bibliography. It's interesting that you are going to use his blog it would seem his website would be just reliable. http://www.chipberlet.net/ It says he is a investigative reporter, independent scholar, photographer, videographer, and progressive activist. It also says he is a human rights activist.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 21:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Working for High Times would not make Berlet an advocacy journalist any more than working for Mother Jones or Playboy would. The association with a magazine is not what does it—it's the actual work performed by the journalist. We can simply throw out that unsupported bit of conjecture.

More to the point, your primary blog source has Berlet calling himself "an investigative researcher and reporter... an activist and organizer since the mid 1960s". So you haver personally elected to ignore the bit about being an investigative researcher and a reporter, and instead you have told the reader that Berlet is a "human rights activist". This shows you engaging in a non-neutral twisting of the source.

The source is in any case not what we want to use to define Berlet for the reader. We should be using WP:SECONDARY sources for that. Binksternet (talk) 22:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

We should be but under the circumstances if no one has found any secondary sources these sources will suffice under my understanding of WP:BLPSPS. The thing that puzzles me is the logic behind removing the part about him being a photojournalist and investigative journalist. First was the push for him to be called an adcocacy journalist and then when a source couldn't be found all mention of his journalist career was removed to focus on activism. These changes are a bit suspect.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 23:11, 15 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

If you don't have a proper source, why are you saying anything at all about his profession? If some guy puts on his personal blog that he's the Amazing Spiderman, will Wikipedia put that in an article? But in fact, there is a secondary source, the Laird Wilcox book mentioned earlier. It describes Berlet as a "writer," which I think everyone can agree on, as well as "activist." For someone to claim "journalist" as a profession, he should be employed as a staff member of a reputable publication. It appears that currently Berlet is an unemployed blogger, but he used to work for PRA. 55 Gators (talk) 15:50, 16 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

@55 Gators:That was a proper source. If someone put's on his blog that he is the amazing spiderman that actual would would be an extraordinary claim. If someone has written for news paper, magazines, and other News media and claims to be a journalist that is not an extraordinary claim. Furthermore his self published sources do not violate WP:BLPSELFPUB. The last thing I would like to make clear is that your comment about his current career borders a wp:blp violation. You might consider deleting that.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 18:43, 16 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

I also feel the need to point out that your comment, "For someone to claim "journalist" as a profession, he should be employed as a staff member of a reputable publication." is not very well thought out. Freelance journalist who make their careers as journalists do not work as staff members of for reputable publications. I'm also new to the whole requirement that you work with a reputable publication as there are numerous journalists that do not. Though as for reputable Chip Bertlet has done work for The Denver Post, AP, and numerous others.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 22:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)Reply

Seriously, how many times do I have to object to the relentless attempts to emphasize criticism of me in this entry while removing numerous cites that document my work.

I have been a paid professional journalist since 1967. My byline has appeared in The New York Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Sun–Times, Des Moines Register, Columbia Journalism Review, Amnesty Now, Mother Jones, The Nation, The Progressive, New Internationalist, Tikkun, Chicago Reader, Chicago Lawyer, The Humanist, Greenpeace Magazine, Boston Phoenix, Pacific News Service, The Guardian (NY), WIN Magazine, In These Times, Boston Real Paper, CovertAction Information Bulletin, National Reporter, Liberation News Service, High Times, and Utne Reader among others.

As an independent scholar, here are some of my published book chapters and encyclopedia entries, most of which are verifiable on WorldCat:

Chip Berlet. 2014. “Heroes Know Which Villains to Kill: How Coded Rhetoric Incites Scripted Violence,” in Matthew Feldman and Paul Jackson (eds), Doublespeak: Rhetoric of the Far-Right Since 1945, Stuttgart: ibidem-Verlag.

Abby Scher and Chip Berlet, 2014. “The Tea Party Moment,” in Nella van Dyke and David S. Meyer, eds., Understanding the Tea Party Movement, Farnham and London: Ashgate.

Chip Berlet. 2013. “Repression, Civil Liberties, Right-Wingers, and Liberals: Resisting Counterinsurgency and Subversion Panics.” In Kristian Williams, Will Munger, and Lara Messersmith-Glavin, eds., Life During Wartime: Resisting Counterinsurgency, AK Press.

_______. 2013. “From Tea Parties to Militias: Between the Republican Party and the Insurgent Ultra-Right in the US.” In Sabine Von Mering and Timothy Wyman McCarty, eds., Right-wing Radicalism Today: Perspectives from Europe and the US. Routledge, Abingdon, UK, 2013.

_______. 2012. “Reframing Populist Resentments in the Tea Party Movement.” In Steep: The Precipitous Rise of the Tea Party. Lawrence Rosenthal and Christine Trost, eds. Berkeley: Univ. of California Press.

_______. 2011. “Protocols to the Left, Protocols to the Right: Conspiracism in American Political Discourse at the Turn of the Second Millennium.” In Richard Allen Landes, and Steven T. Katz, The Paranoid Apocalypse: A Hundred-year Retrospective on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. New York: New York Univ. Press.

_______. 2011. “Muckraking Gadflies Buzz Reality” In Ken Wachsberger, ed., Voices from the Underground: Insider Histories of the Vietnam Era Underground Press, Part 1, East Lansing, MI: Michigan State Univ. Press, pp. 267-297.

_______. 2010. “The Roots of Anti-Obama Rhetoric.” In Donald Cunnigen, Marino A. Bruce, eds. Race in the Age of Obama, Vol.16, Research in Race and Ethnic Relations, Emerald Group Publishing Limited, pp. 301-319. _______. 2009. “Violence and Public Policy,” in Criminology and Public Policy, special issue on terrorism, Vol. 8, Issue 3, (October), pp. 623-631.

_______. 2008. “The United States: Messianism, Apocalypticism, and Political Religion.” In Roger Griffin, Matthew Feldman, and John Tortice, eds., The Sacred in Twentieth Century Politics: Essays in Honour of Professor Stanley G. Payne, Basingstoke, UK: Palgrave Macmillan, pp. 221-257.

Hearst, Ernest, Chip Berlet, and Jack Porter. 2007. “Neo-Nazism.” Encyclopaedia Judaica, 2nd ed., vol. 15 of 22 vols. Eds. Michael Berenbaum and Fred Skolnik. Detroit: Macmillan Reference USA/Thomson Gale, pp. 74-82.

Chip Berlet. 2007. “The New Political Right in the United States: Reaction, Rollback, and Resentment.” In Michael Thompson, ed., Confronting the New Conservatism. The Rise of the Right in America. New York, NYU Press.

_______. 2005. “Christian Identity: The Apocalyptic Style, Political Religion, Palingenesis and Neo-Fascism.” In Roger Griffin, ed., Fascism, Totalitarianism, and Political Religion, London: Routledge, pp. 175-212.

_______. 2005. “When Alienation Turns Right: Populist Conspiracism, the Apocalyptic Style, and Neofascist Movements.” In Lauren Langman and Devorah Kalekin Fishman, eds., Trauma, Promise, and the Millennium: The Evolution of Alienation, Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefield, pp. 115-144.

Chip Berlet. 2004. “Mapping the Political Right: Gender and Race Oppression in Right-Wing Movements.” In Abby Ferber, ed., Home-Grown Hate: Gender and Organized Racism. New York: Routledge.

_______. 2004. “Anti-Masonic Conspiracy Theories: A Narrative Form of Demonization and Scapegoating.” In Arturo de Hoyos and S. Brent Morris, eds., Freemasonry in Context: History, Ritual, Controversy. Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefield.

_______. 2003. “Terminology: Use with Caution.” In Roger Griffin and Matthew Feldman, eds., Fascism, Vol. 5, Critical Concepts in Political Science. New York, NY: Routledge.

_______. 2003. “Apocalypticism,” “Report from Iron Mountain,” “Scaife, Richard Mellon,” “Secular Humanism.” Conspiracy Theories in American History: An Encyclopedia. Peter Knight, ed. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO.

_______. 2003. “Ku Klux Klan.” Encyclopedia of Religion and War. Gabriel Palner Fernandez, ed. (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge.

_______. 2002. “Encountering and Countering Political Repression.” In Mike Prokosch and Laura Raymond, eds., The Global Activists Manual: Local Ways to Change the World. New York: Thunder Mouth Press/Nation Books (with United for a Fair Economy).

_______. 2002. “Surveillance Abuse.” Encyclopedia of Crime and Punishment. David Levinson, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.

_______. 2001. “Apocalypse,” “Nativism,” “Devil and Satan,” and “The Illuminati.” Encyclopedia of Fundamentalism. Brenda Brasher, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge

_______ (associate editor). 2000. “Apocalypse,” “Conspiracism,” “Demagogues,” “Demonization,” “Militia Movements,” “Populism,” “Survivalism,” Totalitarianism,” and “Year 2000.” Encyclopedia of Millennialism and Millennial Movements. Richard A. Landes, ed., (Berkshire Reference Works; Routledge encyclopedias of religion and society). New York: Routledge.

_______. 1998. “Following the Threads: A Work in Progress.” In Amy Elizabeth Ansell, ed., Unraveling the Right: The New Conservatism in American Thought and Politics. New York: Westview, pp. 17–40.

_______. 1998. “Who’s Mediating the Storm? Right-Wing Alternative Information Networks,” in Linda Kintz and Julia Lesage, eds., Culture, Media, and the Religious Right, Minneapolis: Univ. of Minnesota Press, pp. 249-273.

Seriously, this is tiresome and frankly a disgrace.Chip.berlet (talk) 02:27, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Cites to My Scholarly Work on Google Scholar

Cites to My Scholarly Work on Google Scholar Chip.berlet (talk) 03:18, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

As a journalist

"Chip Berlet is a journalist and independent scholar studying rightwing social movements in the US. His writings on scapegoating, conspiracism, and apocalyptic aggression have appeared in popular and academic serials and books." Sabine Von Mering and Timothy Wyman McCarty, eds., Right-wing Radicalism Today: Perspectives from Europe and the US. Routledge, Abingdon, UK Chip.berlet (talk) 03:32, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Typical bio blurb found online

"Chip Berlet, an investigative reporter and scholar, has studied repression, right-wing movements, and political violence for over forty years. He was an associate editor of the Encyclopedia of Millennialism and Millennial Movements and recently authored the study “The United States: Messianism, Apocalypticism, and Political Religion” collected in The Sacred in Twentieth Century Politics. Berlet also coordinated and co-authored the revisions for the entry on “Neo-Nazism” in the new edition of the Encyclopaedia Judaica." San Diego Free PressChip.berlet (talk) 11:01, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

American Sociological Association

American Sociological Association. Annual Meeting-2013 Session Participant: Chip Berlet (Journalist) Section on Collective Behavior and Social Movements Invited Session. Social Movement Scholars as Public Intellectuals

	Unit: Section Invited
	Scheduled Time: Sat Aug 10 2013, 10:30 to 12:10pm
	Session Submission Role: Panelist

The paper I presented at this session was revised for publication and appears as: "Public Intellectuals, Scholars, Journalists, & Activism: Wearing Different Hats and Juggling Different Ethical Mandates"

in the international journal RIMCIS

Other Scholarly Conference Papers

_______. 2011. “Bad ‘Banksters’ or Capitalism's Punch Line?” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, session on “The Resurrection of America's Radical Right,” Las Vegas, NV, August.

_______. 2010. “Reframing Resentments in the Tea Party Movement: How Right-Wing Populists use Demonization, Scapegoating, and Conspiracy Theories to Justify Apocalyptic Aggression.” Paper presented at the conference on Fractures, Alliances, and Mobilizations: Emerging Analyses of the Tea Party Movement at the Center for the Comparative Study of Right-Wing Movements, October 22.

_______. 2010. “Attacks against President Obama in the Right-Wing Media.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Thematic Session on “Countermovements against Citizen Rights,” Atlanta, GA, August.

_______. 2010. “From Tea Parties to Militias: Between the Republican Party and the Insurgent Ultra–Right in the United States.” Paper presented at the conference on the New Right-Wing Radicalism: A Transatlantic Perspective, Center for German and European Studies, Brandeis University, April 28.

_______. 2005. “Protocols to the Left, Protocols to the Right: Conspiracism in American Political Discourse at the Turn of the Second Millennium.” Paper presented at the conference: Reconsidering “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”: 100 Years after the Forgery, The Elie Wiesel Center for Judaic Studies, Boston University, October 30-31.

Brenda E. Brasher and Chip Berlet. 2004. “Imagining Satan: Modern Christian Right Print Culture as an Apocalyptic Master Frame. Paper presented at the Conference on Religion and the Culture of Print in America, Center for the History of Print Culture in Modern America, Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison, September 10-11.

Chip Berlet. 2001. “When Hate Went Online.” Paper presented at the Northeast Sociological Association, Spring Conference, Fairfield, CT: Sacred Heart University, April 28. (Revised July 4, 2008).

_______. 1999. “Hate Crimes, Hate Groups, and Racial Tension in an Integrating Chicago Neighborhood, 1978-1988.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Chicago, IL, August.

_______. 1998. “Y2K and Millennial Pinball: How Y2K Shapes Survivalism in the US Christian Right, Patriot and Armed Militia Movements, and Far Right.” Paper presented at the annual symposium, Center for Millennial Studies, Boston University, December.

_______. 1998. “Mad as Hell: Right–wing Populism, Fascism, and Apocalyptic Millennialism.” Paper presented at the 14th World Congress of Sociology (XIVe Congrès Mondial de Sociologie), International Sociological Association, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

_______. 1998. “The Ideological Weaponry of the American Right: ‘Dangerous Classes’ and ‘Welfare Queens’ (L’arsenal idéologique de la droite américaine: «classes dangereuses» et «welfare queens»). Paper presented at the international symposium, The “American Model:” an Hegemonic Perspective for the End of the Millennium?, (Le «modèle américain»: une perspective hégémonique pour la fin du millénaire?), Group Regards Critiques, Univ. of Lausanne, Switzerland, May 12.

_______. 1997. “Fascism’s Franchises: Stating the Differences from Movement to Totalitarian Government.” Paper presented at the Annual Meeting, American Sociological Association, Toronto, Canada, August.

Chip.berlet (talk) 13:18, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

A considerable portion of this entry is biased by the selection of my publications and public life that focus on controversies which play a relatively small role in my professional life as a journalist, scholar, and researcher. In this way the entry allows biased editors to quote at length from a relative handful of critics in a way that suggests that these controversies and criticisms accurately reflect the totality of my work and the fact that it is generally respected by my colleagues in journalism, scholarship, and research. The criticisms generally come from a few sets of tendencies:

1. Conspiracy theorists
2. Defenders of persons or groups I have criticized
3. Authors who despise anyone on the political left as an “extremist.”
4. Red-baiters who make false allegations about me as supporting Stalinism, Leninism, Communism, Totalitarianism, etc.

Chip.berlet (talk) 13:33, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Keep in mind the BLP policies, but let ask you to speak more directly. Which of these are sources we can disqualify, based off which relevnet wikipedia policy,and why do you feel that policy applies to said sources?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Is there a Structural Bias and Dependence on Selective Framing?

Chip.berlet (talk) 13:48, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

• Comments--- The lead is overly long and detailed for an article of such modest length. Otherwise the article looks OK to me except for the final portion of the article starting with Ties and Lies section. In this one sentence section and the sections below I see what appears to be cherry picking of sources and info added only to create drama and controversy by giving undue weight to minor aspects of a very full and prestigious career. PS I also think the photo is inappropriate as well.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

14,402 keystrokes later, I'm still not seeing a specific request for an edit here. If you want the article to read like a promotional blurb that you can use for commercial purposes (I see that you have helpfully included some examples), I think that would be a bad idea. 55 Gators (talk) 15:49, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please refrain from personal attacks and snide comments on the talk page. Thank you.Chip.berlet (talk) 23:30, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

The request for needed edits is stated above based on the RFC question: Is this entry fair and accurate or biased due to a structural bias and dependence on selective framing? Perhaps we could start with a simple yes or no?Chip.berlet (talk) 23:40, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

OK, I'll say "yes." Joe Bodacious (talk) 00:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

My mistake. Apologies.

A: This entry is fair and accurate

B: This entry is biased due to a structural bias and dependence on selective framing

A bit of cooperation would be appreciated.Chip.berlet (talk) 01:34, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think I can help with at least some of your request. I have a busy string of real life assignments, then a few days of relative peace. Binksternet (talk) 02:01, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. I appreciate it. Chip.berlet (talk) 03:04, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'd agree that whoever selectively framed that weird picture of you with the friggin' turtle wasn't doing you any favors. Badmintonhist (talk) 03:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think that the article is too promotional in tone. Does that make me a "B"? I also think we should lose the bibliography. No other Wikipedia BLP has anything like that. Waalkes (talk) 06:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

PLEASE remove the bibliography page. It embarrasses me. Note that it served as a ploy to delete from this page links to my online bibliography and bio material at my websiteChip.berlet (talk) 21:00, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I don't agree with deleting the bibliography page.Perhaps merging it with this page. But I see no reason to delete it.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 05:09, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Respectfully, Mr Berlet, your embarrassment isn't high on my level of concern nor should it be on any other editors. Serialjoepsycho (talk) 05:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Snide comments are not constructive. Please note that my entry is the product of repeated attacks by pro-LaRouchite editors (and others from my list of critics above), many of whom were sanctioned or banned over many years through normal Wikipedia review & mediation processes. My embarrassment is due to the fact that there is no reason I should have a separate bibliography page. It seems grandiose to me. I did not create it. A frequently updated bibliography already exists here.Chip.berlet (talk) 10:39, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

That wasn't a snide comment. Your whining is neither constructive or productive. You are hardly the first author with a split biblio. The user that split your biblio got banned for being a sock. However I don't see this edit in question being in bad faith. The answer would be to maybe merge, but you feelings on grandiosity and embarassment aren't a reason to do so.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 16:19, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Taken a load of self-referenced promo stuff out. No references as to why it was notable or relevant. Basically a list of 'Chip says this, Chip thinks that' almost all referenced to Chip himself. Only in death does duty end (talk) 20:05, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please note that I did not insert that "self-referenced promo stuff", and while it was proper to delete it, the entry now primarily consists of references to obscure incidents and the views of critics while failing to include easily found sources of information about my 40 year career as a journalist, investigative reporter, and independent scholar. 20:58, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

For what its worth, the *only* reason I left those for the moment was they had sources unrelated to the subject. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:04, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

It is relatively easy to find reputable citations for these descriptions. click here for reputable citations in books

See the Preface to Nella van Dyke and David S. Meyer, eds., Understanding the Tea Party Movement, Farnham and London: Ashgate, 2014.

See American Sociological Association. Annual Meeting-2013 Session Participant: Chip Berlet (Journalist); Section on Collective Behavior and Social Movements Invited Session: "Social Movement Scholars as Public Intellectuals"

The paper I presented at this session was revised for publication and appears as: "Public Intellectuals, Scholars, Journalists, & Activism: Wearing Different Hats and Juggling Different Ethical Mandates" in the international journal RIMCIS Chip.berlet (talk) 12:40, 13 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Badmintonhist (talk | contribs)‎ . . (15,179 bytes) (-426)‎ . . (Deleted material in lead about the recruiting of farmers in the Midwest into white supremacist groups because I don't see anything about this in body of article.) (undo) To delete something from the lead and not place it in the body of the article gives the impression of bias and bad faith. Let's not raise that issue. Just move it to the body of the article since it is properly cited.Chip.berlet (talk) 02:32, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Place it where in the body of the article? In what context and with what supporting facts? What we had there was the floating presumed fact that you were "known as one of the first researchers to have drawn attention to the efforts by white supremacist and antisemitic groups to recruit farmers in the Midwestern United States in the 1970s anf 1980s," sourced to a 21 year old article that is apparently unavailable on the internet. There was no cogent argument for including this in the lead as was/is. As for including it in the body we should have supporting facts for it. When and in what writings did you "draw attention" to this phenomenon? What reliable sources reported on your findings? Badmintonhist (talk) 19:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

A 21 year old article and it's not availible on the internet? That's interesting. What's interesting is that is not relevent. However You'll never believe what I found on the internet with out any real effort. "Bridging chasms of race and hate" by Jason Berry. I found it in the archives of the publisher. Would you look at that? But then there's a pay wall. But I truly am fascinated to hear your explanantion of how a 21 year old article that isn't availible on the internet is not a reliable source. Wait is not good now because it's behind a paywall?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 20:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I congratulate you for going this far. Now perhaps you can complete the job by showing us where the Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg Times article tells us that Mr. Berlet is "known as" a pioneer in drawing attention to the recruitment of Midwestern farmers into racist and and antisemitic groups. Also, if this is feat is so prominent as to go into the lead of our Berlet bio, perhaps the TB Times and other reliable sources have some details about the the effort. Badmintonhist (talk) 22:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Why would I do that? You can read the source yourself. I gave you a link above. Why are you going on about the lead exactly? 2 editors have already said to stick in the body of the article. More details? Well if the article that you are about to read contains it maybe that is enough. We'll just have to wait and see. Then if you need more you could do something unsual and put effort in. You could ask Mr Bertlet if he's aware of any further reliable sources on this subject. But again that if it needs more.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 22:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

This article is a disgrace. It is now almost totally written from the point of view of critics. How many times over how many years do I have to waste time doing what Wikipedia claims it does--create fair unbiased entries?Chip.berlet (talk) 02:35, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

This seems to be an often used but rarely useful comment from you. The major thing that needs to be taken care of immeadiately is that there are no BLP violations. Any other issues can be taken care eventually. The goal of wikipedia is not to finish this article today but to do so eventually.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

And I'm not sure if I can answer your other question without it being a BLP violation.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 19:24, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

what Wikipedia actually claims. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Serialjoepsycho, note the comments on eventualism in WP:BLP#Balance. I have no idea whether critical views are disproportionately represented in the article as it stands, but if they are, it should be fixed as a matter of urgency by including independent third-party sources expressing more positive viewpoints. Andreas JN466 10:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Journalists know the lead is for a simple synopsis of an article in order for a reader to see pretty much what is covered in that article - not for an exhaustive list of material in the article. I left in the PRA SPS reference to his being a worker there -- but that source is not of much value for anything else at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Collect (talk • contribs) 07:55, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

I note the extensive laundry list of "occupations" was restored without discussion here, and that the SPS source was still in the lead. If a source would not be RS for a claim in the body of an article, it is not RS for a claim in the lead of a bLP. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:35, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm not exactly sure which jobs you are complaining about and how they would be exceptional claims or violate any other portion of WP:SELFPUB or WP:SPS.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 22:40, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

It is not a "laundry list" to specifically mention what Berlet is notable for studying - extreme right-wing movements. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 23:06, 28 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Serious Scholar Critics

Find some serious specific criticism of my work regarding the Militia Movement in this cite: Chermak, Steven M. (2002). Searching for a Demon: The Media Construction of the Militia Movement. UPNE. p. 92. ISBN 9781555535414. Also criticisms in Fenster, Mark. 1999. Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press; and Durham, Martin 2000. The Christian Right, the Far Right and the Boundaries of American Conservatism. Manchester, England: Manchester University Press.00:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Chip.berlet (talk) 00:58, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Do you happen to have a link to "Bridging chasms of race and hate" that isn't behind a paywall or a copy of it that you can share without violating any copyright law? I'd also like to say this is a more productive use of your time than complaining about the state of this page. I do to say though that readability could definitely become an issue if you keep opening a new topic or subtopic everytime you make a post especially if the topic is being dicussed in different area. Please take that into consideration.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 03:13, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sorry about proliferating topics and subtopics. I will try to restrain my angst. :-) I will track down some hard copy or online archive material by critics and post the wording and cites here. Feel free to re-arrange my proliferated topicomania.Chip.berlet (talk) 12:14, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Concise Published Bio Data from 2004

"Chip Berlet is Senior Analyst at Political Research Associates (PRA), a progressive think tank near Boston. He is coauthor, with Matthew N. Lyons, of Right-Wing Populism in America (2000) and editor of Eyes Right! (1995). Both books received the Gustavus Myers Center award for the study of bigotry and human rights in North America. Berlet has studied and written about the U.S. political right for over twenty-five years, with articles appearing in academic books and journals; popular magazines, including the Progressive and the Nation; and daily newspapers,such as the New York Times, the Boston Globe, and the Chicago Sun-Times. From 1977 to 1987 he worked in a multiracial community group organizing against a neo-Nazi/Ku Klux Klan movement that sought to block the integration of a southwest Chicago neighborhood." in Ferber, Abby L. ed. 2004. Home-Grown Hate: Gender and Organized Racism. New York, NY: Routledge, p. 269.

Note that I have two books in print, not three See also Selected journal articles at WorldCat

Chip.berlet (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

I'm sorry, Mr. Berlet, but it really does look a little silly to have you on the talk page requesting that Wikipedia base your bio on commercial ad copy. Joe Bodacious (talk) 01:57, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

What are you calling commercial ad copy? His excerpt from the Book? Above someone is complaining about an SPS being used when honestly there no real controversy over his career claims. Hell go read above where someone claims that he can't claim to be a journalist because he never worked for a reputable publication on staff. That ignored of course his career working for numerous reputable publications. It also discounts the work numerous freelancers. There was a request above for him to provide some Non-sps reliable sources that reference his work. If you have an issue with the sources could you drop the trash talk and get to the point about what is wrong with them? Mr Berlet is that the Abby Ferber with the PHD in Sociology?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 02:26, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

That link shows 32 books.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 02:34, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

Please just call me Chip. We all are all Wikipedians. Abby Ferber has a Ph.D. in Sociology and is Professor of Sociology at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Routledge is a well-known publisher of scholarly books. I rather liked the turtle photo, but I will round up some open source photos and plop them on the Commons. Thanks to everyone trying to improve this page and make it align with Wikipedia standards.Chip.berlet (talk) 12:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)Reply