Talk:IOS version history: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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::::::::I thought about it more, and I think you could make an argument from [[WP:NLIST]] that those Hardware Support tables should be allowed, even if they are only sourced from Apple's documentation, because the whole topic of the table (which phones support which iOS version) is widely covered in secondary sources. Does that have enough weight to counter [[WP:NOTACATALOG]]? I have no idea. So, in full, I really don't know to agree with here. [[User:Mesocarp|Mesocarp]] ([[User talk:Mesocarp|talk]]) 20:04, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::No. It does not. Having excessive detail on what version supports what is way too technical - and it does indeed violate WP:NOTCATALOG. - [[User:Evelyn Marie|Evelyn Marie]] ([[User_talk:Evelyn Marie|leave a message]] · [[Special:Contributions/Evelyn Marie|contributions]]) 04:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::3O: How is it "way too technical"? By what standard? Is there some accepted Wikipedia guidelines on technical is too technical to be included in a Wikipedia article? [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::WP:NOTACATALOG has nothing to do with this. If it did, many Wikipedia articles would have to be stripped of their tables. [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::@[[User:YannickFran|YannickFran]] i kindly ask you to stop reverting a change that was made weeks ago to the article. the table is redundant and unnecessary, and is not a focus of the article. So kindly stop edit warring and reinstating a useless change. '''Edit:''' The table also kinda violates [[WP:NOTCATALOG]] as well. Wikipedia is not a device support database. - [[User:Evelyn Marie|Evelyn Marie]] ([[User_talk:Evelyn Marie|leave a message]] · [[Special:Contributions/Evelyn Marie|contributions]]) 10:14, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::I kindly request you to stop acting as if this is your article and continously removing content that has been part of this article for years with not a single valid reason. [[WP:NOTCATALOG]] has '''nothing''' to do with these kinds of tables (which can be found all across Wikipedia), which you'd have known if you'd actually read those rules. The version tables on this page are closer related to that rule than the compatibility tables, and don't get me wrong, even that is one hell of a stretch. This is yet another example of you throwing a rule at this that has absolutely nothing to do with it. Please provide either a valid reason that can be discussed and let's come to a conclusion then, or just stop doing this.

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:::::::::::It's readable with screen readers (which read the column header every time you go left or right in a row, and the row header every time you go up or down a column), but could be better, and contains a lot of cruft. We should reduce it to 3 columns: model, first supported version, last supported version.

:::::::::::The Overview table was much worse for accessibility. For example, I go to the iOS 4 row. I go right, and it says: "June 21, 2010, initial release date". Then I go to the right, and it says: "4.2.1, latest version". But that's not the latest version; we list three because different devices had different end-of-life, but EOLs are mentioned further right, and it'll be unclear to people who use screen readers (4.2.10 was also unclear to me even though I can see fine). Non-header cells should also not be merged even when their contents are identical, since it'll only read it as the topmost, leftmost cell, and otherwise will skip over it instead of reading it. I've fixed the Overview table now. [[User:DFlhb|DFlhb]] ([[User talk:DFlhb|talk]]) 12:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::::{{ping|Evelyn Marie}} I can personally confirm that my screen reader has no problem with this table. It seems you didn't even bother checking before trying to make this argument, which suggests you are not engaging in [[WP:good faith|good faith]] with {{ping|YannickFran|p=}} but rather are just trying to invent new excuses to avoid letting [[User:YannickFran|YannickFran]] include the table, possibly due to a misguided belief that your years of editing this article means the article [[WP:Ownership of content|belongs to you]] (it does not). [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

::::[[WP:3O|3O]]: 25 kB is chump change; what is the problem?

::::If you think it is an eyesore- just don't look at it!

::::The table is useful information. It should be included. [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:13, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{ping|YannickFran}} Respectfully, stop re-adding the template. There was no conensus to keep the tables and you are the only one arguing for the tables to stay by ''forcefully'' re-adding them to the page. They have no reason to exist on this page - The overview table, as previously discussed, already serves this purpose. Those hardware support templates do ''nothing'' except to repeat information in an arguably uglier manner. This is all I'm going to say on this subject. The tables stay gone - stop re-adding them without seeking consensus to re-add them. And another thing: Wikipedia's style guide literally says to avoid information-dense tables unless ''absolutely necessary''. - [[User:Evelyn Harthbrooke|Evelyn Harthbrooke]] ([[User_talk:Evelyn Harthbrooke|leave a message]] · [[Special:Contributions/Evelyn Harthbrooke|contributions]]) 20:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

::In this discussion alone I'm already not the only one arguing for these tables to remain on this page. Further down on this talk page, more people request for the restoration of the article prior to your removal of them. I am not the only one arguing for these tables to remain on this page (and let's keep that in mind: this is about content remaining, not adding). You on the other hand are the only one arguing for their removal. "{{tq|This is all I'm going to say on this subject}}"? Fine by me if you don't want to discuss it, but then don't demand something is removed either. You have refused to actually discuss this in the past (and no, throwing random arguments at the wall and hoping one sticks is not "discussing"). But just throwing your hands up and going "this is the last thing I say so now anything I've said is set in stone and nobody else's opinion matters" is not how this works.

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:::::::Also, yes, I somehow have a personal vendetta against ones and zeroes on a screen. No, I don't. I just really don't think tables related to "hardware support" belong on an article involving an operating system's version history, and version history alone. Those tables would be better off on some sort of article involving iOS devices instead. - [[User:Evelyn Harthbrooke|Evelyn Harthbrooke]] ([[User_talk:Evelyn Harthbrooke|leave a message]] · [[Special:Contributions/Evelyn Harthbrooke|contributions]]) 09:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::Note how, yet again, you aren't actually arguing any points. But you did, yet again, introduce a brand new point: hardware support doesn't belong on an operating system's version history. Which is weird because your earlier argument was to keep repeating that these tables duplicate information on this page from the overview table and version tables. So which one is it? Is it or is it not duplicated information? And if it is, then we should remove that information from those tables as well, shouldn't we, because it doesn't belong here? Regardless, these tables were specifically moved here from hardware lists ''because'' people argued this is where they belonged. [[User:YannickFran|YannickFran]] ([[User talk:YannickFran|talk]]) 19:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

::::{{quote|text=Respectfully I am not going to re-add the templates.}}

::::Respectfully stop acting as if you [[WP:OWN|own this article]]. It is not solely up to you. Saying stuff like this while simultaneously accusing {{ping|YannickFran|p=}} of "edit warring" heavily suggests that you believe you have privileged editing rights over this page. You do not. [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:32, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

::There was also no consensus to remove the tables, yet you deleted them from the article. [[User:Brusquedandelion|Brusquedandelion]] ([[User talk:Brusquedandelion|talk]]) 09:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

== iOS 16.4.1 is not a Rapid Security Response update ==