Talk:Paradise: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
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== Major Re-edit or Remove Required ==
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== ==
I gave up on this page straight away, sorry but too many 'big words'. wiki is for quick info for the masses. Very poorly written. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/124.169.163.172|124.169.163.172]] ([[User talk:124.169.163.172|talk]]) 10:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
There should be some standard followed in this article as to whether "Paradise" and "Heaven" are capitalized or not. Throughout we find some capitalization used and some not. Sh33na 05:48, 22 April 2016 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sh33na|Sh33na]] ([[User talk:Sh33na|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sh33na|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Paradise is the best possible world ==
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== Paradise in the end of time ==
The development of the man-made artificialities is a factor that is independent of the nature of humans but it does set work efficiency demands on humans and efficiency optimising demands on societies. Those demand one to follow the best ways of living in what comes to working ability, i.e. to reach for full health. That is the same goal as before: a goal that our nature guides us toward, so answering the work efficiency demands ought to lead to happy life according to the nature of humans. (Pictures of the world take into account the existence of the technology.) Optimising the society goes along the same principles as during the evolution or god's creation, so it means perfect moral. A perfect moral and happy healthy ways of living create a final paradise on Earth, this time with the technology around but otherwise just like in the beginning of time: what comes to the lives of teh living beings, technology stays at the place of a servant. [[User:InsectIntelligence|InsectIntelligence]] ([[User talk:InsectIntelligence|talk]]) 05:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
See the e-book at http://2013paradise.blogspot.fi <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/188.238.213.173|188.238.213.173]] ([[User talk:188.238.213.173|talk]]) 12:59, 12 July 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Correction in Islam section ==
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Made a small correction in Islam section. Firdous is the equivelent word for Paradise, but in Islam that word is used for the highest level of it, with the whole of Paradise called "Jannah" or Garden. The sections by the way are small and could stand being grown considerably by using resources of how the Quran and Sunnah (Islam), biblical and gospel(christianity), old testament and jewish scripture (Jeudaism) sees paradie in detail (Who goes in first, what are the rewards for different people, etc.) I am not though up for the project. :) <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sampharo|Sampharo]] ([[User talk:Sampharo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sampharo|contribs]]) 17:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
I don't want to add another section so I'll just put this here. I made some edits to the Islam section; I corrected the articles of faith and I corrected the explanation of the verse that was mentioned (although I made a small mistake). I don't understand why my edit was reverted back. The 6 articles of faith in Islam (belief in Allah, His angels, His books, His Messengers, the Day of Judgement and Divine Decree) are well known so I was surprised that there was a mistake there, so I changed it and someone reverted the change.
==Entymological source==▼
Furthermore, while the verse mentioned (Qur'an 2:214) is adressing all Muslims (currently whilst they are still alive), the article suggests that Muslims in general are not assured of Paradise, however the Islamic understanding is that Muslims (assuming they die in that state) will surely enter Paradise. What the verse means is that everyone's faith will be tested but not all tests are the same. Some people who call themselves Muslims will be tested and eventually will die as non-Muslims thus exposing their insincerity. Read Qur'an 29:2-3 for more. [[Special:Contributions/86.148.78.209|86.148.78.209]] ([[User talk:86.148.78.209|talk]]) 17:48, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
▲==EntymologicalEtymological source==
paradise and its equivalent in arabic--الفردوس -- which derived clearely from Persian ,an Indo-arian language closely related to Sanskrit,in addition to another word giving the same meaning in arabic i.e.الجنة which means holy garden.All these equivalents are closely related to the Egyptian concept of heavenly kingdom of Osiris - wrongly described as underworld-as a similar to under world in Greek and Roman mythology.This is a great mistake.The kingdom of Osiris is called SEkHET pronounced سخت which means Field and more precisely Agricultural field .At this point all similarities are disclosed either in sansikrit ,persian, arabic or europian items.
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:''8 And God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and placed there the man whom he had formed. 9 And God made to spring up also out of the earth every tree beautiful to the eye and good for food, and the tree of life in the midst of the garden, and the tree of learning the knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river proceeds out of Eden to water the garden, thence it divides itself into four heads.''
The original Greek [[Septuagint]] translation utilized the transliterated word παράδεισον -- ''parádeisos'', which in Hebrew is the plural form of ''pardes'', "orchard," for the [[Garden of Eden]]. Hebrew is thus the source of the word "paradise," not Old Iranian. '''[[User:DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">DRosenbach</span>]]''' <sup>([[User_talk:DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/DRosenbach|<span style="color:#006400">Contribs</span>]])</sup> 02:33, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
As stated above, "comes from language A so it cannot come from language B" is a fallacy. But I find it very strange that there should be no scholarly sources that either confirm or dispute the common origin of परदेश/[[wikt:प्रदेश]] "p[a]radeś" and paradise. They are so remarkably similar in meaning (district, enclosure, land with a wall/fence around). The "-des" part is clearly a cognate, but what about "p(a)ra-"? --[[Special:Contributions/88.73.3.186|88.73.3.186]] ([[User talk:88.73.3.186|talk]]) 16:30, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
To me, the meaning of Sanskrit परदेश (paradeś) as ''another's country'' or ''foreign land'' is just too close a connotation to rule it out as possible source and refuse mentioning in the Etymology section. --[[User:Hodsha|Kolya]] ([[User talk:Hodsha|talk]]) 17:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
== Origin of word. ==
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== Requested move ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
{{requested move/dated|Heaven}}
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
[[Paradise]]The →result {{noof redirect|1=Heaven}}the –move Therequest twowas: articles'''procedural are synonymouclose''' in meaning,favour andof theirthe contentmerge isproposal almostjust exactlyunder thethis samesection. [[User:PassArmbrust|Armbrust, aB.Ed.]] Method[[User talk:Armbrust|<fontsup colorstyle="grey" face="Tahomacolor:#E3A857;">Pass aWrestleMania MethodXXVIII</fontsup>]] [[User talkSpecial:PassaMethodContributions/Armbrust|<fontsub colorstyle="greycolor:#008000;">The face="papyrus">talkUndertaker 20–0</fontsub>]] 1105:2651, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
----
[[Paradise]] → {{no redirect|1=Heaven}} – The two articles are synonymou in meaning, and their content is almost exactly the same. [[User:Pass a Method|<span style="color:grey; font-family:Tahoma;">Pass a Method</span>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<span style="color:grey; font-family:papyrus;">talk</span>]] 11:26, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Are they really synonymous? "Paradise", after all, is [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=paradise&searchmode=none derived from the garden of eden] rather than heaven. Both may be biblical fantasies, but we generally document biblical fantasies in separate articles rather than mashing them together in a single one. [[User:Bobrayner|bobrayner]] ([[User talk:Bobrayner|talk]]) 20:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' this article is about "paradise" the word, and its etymological origins and historical usage. This is not the same as the etymological history of "heaven" or its historical usage. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.49.127.65|70.49.127.65]] ([[User talk:70.49.127.65|talk]]) 22:21, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
**Also '''Speedy procedural close''' {{la|paradise}} and {{la|heaven}} are two separate articles. If you want to delete [[heaven]] to move [[paradise]] to that location, you need to go through [[WP:AFD]]. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.49.127.65|70.49.127.65]] ([[User talk:70.49.127.65|talk]]) 22:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Support''' The word "Paradise" is used in various religions, not just biblically, Such variant description s are already suficiently covered in [[Heaven]]. [[User:Pass a Method|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:Tahoma;">Pass a Method</fontspan>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:papyrus;">talk</fontspan>]] 08:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' this is a !vote by the nominator. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.49.127.65|70.49.127.65]] ([[User talk:70.49.127.65|talk]]) 04:13, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''speedy close''' this is not a move, this is a merge discussion. Close and reopen as a merge discussion. FWIW, I would oppose the merge however.--[[User:Karl.brown|KarlB]] ([[User talk:Karl.brown|talk]]) 16:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[WP:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->
==Merge==
{{archive top|1=There is a clear consensus against merging the two articles. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust, B.Ed.]] [[User talk:Armbrust|<sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Armbrust|<sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0</sub>]] 06:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)}}
{{rfc|rfcid=55FFEC1}}
I propose a merging this article "Paradise" into [[Heaven]]. Do you support or oppose? [[User:Pass a Method|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:Tahoma;">Pass a Method</fontspan>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:papyrus;">talk</fontspan>]] 19:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Support''' The articles are very similar, and the religion sub-sections are even more similar to the religion sub-sections of [[heaven]]. [[User:Pass a Method|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:Tahoma;">Pass a Method</fontspan>]] [[User talk:PassaMethod|<fontspan colorstyle="color:grey"; face="font-family:papyrus;">talk</fontspan>]] 19:34, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''oppose''' the articles cover different subjects - they are related, but are not the same. There are many different concepts for heaven, paradise, utopia, nirvana, etc across different faiths and traditions; while the articles as they stand are not perfect, I don't think a merge is in order. Also, you may want to read this [[Help:Merging]] which gives help on how to propose a merge. --[[User:Karl.brown|KarlB]] ([[User talk:Karl.brown|talk]]) 19:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Procedural comment''' The nominator has failed to tag {{la|paradise}} and {{la|heaven}} with merge tags, or list it at [[WP:PM]]. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.49.127.65|70.49.127.65]] ([[User talk:70.49.127.65|talk]]) 04:14, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
::I just tagged them. --[[User:Karl.brown|KarlB]] ([[User talk:Karl.brown|talk]]) 20:07, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' the etymological and historical use history for the word "paradise" has nothing to do with the word "heaven". -- [[Special:Contributions/70.49.127.65|70.49.127.65]] ([[User talk:70.49.127.65|talk]]) 04:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per KarlB. Also the differences is concepts are briefly mentioned here ("Earthly Paradise", heaven to describe the universe, etc.) --[[User:NeilN|'''<span style="color:#003F87;">Neil<span style="color:#CD0000;">N</span></span>''']] <sup style="font-family:Calibri;">''[[User talk:NeilN|<span style="color:#003F87;">talk to me</span>]]''</sup> 04:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per KarlB. While heaven could be described as Paradise, the concept of Paradise is a broader concept and deserves a separate article. [[User:Monty845|<span style="color:green;">Monty</span>]][[User talk:Monty845|<small><sub style="color:#A3BFBF;">845</sub></small>]] 04:42, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' It's not clear what the problem is that this would solve. <span style='font:1.0em "Apple Garamond","Adobe Garamond Pro",Garamond,serif;color:#369;'>[[User:DoriSmith|Dori]] ☾[[User talk:DoriSmith|Talk]] ⁘ [[Special:Contributions/DoriSmith|Contribs]]☽</span> 19:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}
== World Is Of Love ==
"World Is Of Love
All action is based on what works i.e. on what is healthy.
The healthy is what our nature guides us towards,
what we naturally feel love for.
So the world, all it’s dynamics,
is based on the healthy, which we love.
On a flowery language: “The World Is Of Love!”
A thought by Hannele Tervola
Say that all man-made things which are fully functioning, optimized for many purposes at the same time and used rationally wisely in the light of one's whole picture of the world, are "healthy". Notice that we like strenght, protection, speed etc., so we mildly love the healthy artificial things too, and the ideally good we would love.
This way the above thought applies also in the modern world full of man-made artificialities.
This is also a social skill: to see the place of each thing in the healthy natural original ages old way of living. That is a little bit the same as the social role of a stupid person: "Here am I doing this thing that I am motivated toward naturally, like you too can see in yourself the natural inclination for this type of things." and so the other one is slightly amused and does something along the same lines but one's own version, kind of catches the tune of doing. And so for some minutes things run smoothly and everybody is happy. This is connected to learning about healthy natural ways of living on all areas of life: enjoyable motion, watching beauty, enjoying friendly conversations, doing nice things according to one's likings, caring for the major matters of the world, reacting emotionally to different things in life and in the world, etc."
Source: the earliest writings at http://healthilymoral.blogspot.fi by Hannele Tervola
[[Special:Contributions/188.238.213.173|188.238.213.173]] ([[User talk:188.238.213.173|talk]]) 12:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
== Slavic 'ray', etymology ==
I've added {{cn}} regarding the "Persian origin" of the word. The word is most likely Iranian indeed (Vasmer's dictionary agrees), but is not necessary of Persian origin; that would be especially doubtful considering the absense of any direct contact between Persians and proto-Slavs. Vasmer himself brings up the Mordvin word "riz" of Iranian origin, but its exact origin is Sarmathian (like a great part of Mordvin vocabulary), not Persian. Scythians and Sarmathians apparently were the only Iranian groups who contacted proto-Slavs as well. These days "Iranian" and "Persian" are mostly synonyms (because Iran is an official name of the modern day Persia), but it isn't always so.[[Special:Contributions/95.84.196.225|95.84.196.225]] ([[User talk:95.84.196.225|talk]]) 13:48, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
== Weight ==
The subsection about Jehovah's Witnesses basically re-states, at some length, what is already stated as Irenaeus' 2nd century view about paradise, and that they accept a rendering of Luke 23:43 that is consistent with the Curetonian Gospels. These views clearly are not unique to Jehovah's Witnesses, and seems unnecessary to elaborate on their specific view here. Belief that the 'righteous' will live on a literal 'restored' earth after the 'millenium' rather than in 'heaven' is a general belief of Adventism (from which Jehovah's Witnesses originated), and should not be misrepresented as a belief unique to JWs.--[[User:Jeffro77|<span style='color:#365F91'>'''Jeffro'''</span><span style='color:#FFC000'>''77''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jeffro77|talk]]) 08:29, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
== The problem with atheism ==
It's a myth that atheists become Christians when they go to hell or paradise. Statistically only 3 to 12% change opinion (watch Robert Sapolsky, openness on Vimeo), and we know that from other psychological tests. Most atheists would believe that they are scientifically and without magic transfered to a parallel universe with a monarch named god.
On the other hand ALL Christians change opinion when they go to the atheistic equivalent of hell and paradise; the [[nothingness]]. ALL Christians then become religiously neutral; because nothingness doesn't allow thought.
One might claim: "yes, but we don't know, either the atheists or the Christians are right".<br>
Both experiencing and non-experiencing are empirical and not merely intellectual, mathematical or [[logic]]al assessments.<br>
Both experiencing and non-experiencing aren't a causal analyses of the specific systemic processes.<br>
It is a mere empirical experience. [[Empiricism]] doesn't lead to systemic knowledge as [[metalogic]].<br>
Study the work of [[Bertrand Russell]].
:::: keep it here, national flags (UK, Finland, Georgia...) depict the sign of the cross, so even non Christian citizens have the right to contribute to the "controversy" paragraph (for important subjects there is a controversy section) <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2A02:587:4105:2C00:6057:C7B1:7B56:C232|2A02:587:4105:2C00:6057:C7B1:7B56:C232]] ([[User talk:2A02:587:4105:2C00:6057:C7B1:7B56:C232#top|talk]]) 02:27, 22 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
* watch Robert Sapolsky, openness on Vimeo
# experience doesn't have a single interpretation
# [[empiricism]] isn't the only methodology which shapes [[opinion]]s; try [[metalogic]]
== Re: Paradise (Hebrew Related/Word or Cognate Version) ==
Hi, everyone :)
Just wanted to mention (include) this unmentioned detail-which perhaps, should be mentioned (?!) for purposes of wholesome information about the (inevitably, similar-sounding/appearing) Hebrew word of: par'des=פַּרְדֵּס (which, like its Persian & preceding derivative equivalents, respectively, referred to a garden/an enclosure-like garden space which this Hebrew word DOES portray). [[User:AK63|AK63]] ([[User talk:AK63|talk]]) 05:40, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
==Wiki Education assignment: Islamic Art==
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Richmond/Islamic_Art_(Fall_2022) | assignments = [[User:Sdolphin02|Sdolphin02]] | reviewers = [[User:Shakera Patterson|Shakera Patterson]], [[User:Zorabissell|Zorabissell]], [[User:Joe.harkins.richmond|Joe.harkins.richmond]] | start_date = 2022-08-23 | end_date = 2022-12-09 }}
<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Shakera Patterson|Shakera Patterson]] ([[User talk:Shakera Patterson|talk]]) 04:58, 14 December 2022 (UTC)</span>