Talk:Thomas Jefferson: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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::::::::I think it's well understood that Jefferson used slaves to make a profit. Don't think we have to include all these details to actually demonstrate that particular point. If we start reintroducing details it seems it will just invite others details, and in that event will only invite more debate about which details to include, and not. For example, imo, since this is a biography about Jefferson the man, details about how he treated and provided for slaves is the most important. I'm sure there will be one or more who disagree. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] 16:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::Removal of misleading sources is in itself an improvement of the article. And yes, of course newer sources reference older sources - that's the "[[standing on the shoulders of giants]]" part. But you totally ignore the "seeing further" part. Modern sources don't simply repeat older sources - they add new levels of validation, comparison, and interpretation. Just as I don't want to get my medical treatment according to the state of knowledge of [[Robert Koch]], I don't want my history based on the state of knowledge in Merwin. As for primary sources, I point you to the "but only with care" part. You cannot seriously advocate taking the claims of a 75 year old slave overseer, recorded and published some 40 to 55 years after the fact, on the brink of the American civil war, as a reliable source on the treatment of slaves. It's good source of what Bacon said at the time, but not a reliable source for what actually happened. As for facts vs. opinions, I point you to my above statement on Mervin - you seem to have no problem with his plainly ridiculous opinion. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] ([[User talk:Stephan Schulz|talk]]) 18:59, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::[[User:Gwillhickers]]-- I think the picture you're presenting of him as a kindly genteel slave owner, similar to George Washington (who actually freed his slaves upon his death), is inaccurate. I'm not saying that Jefferson abused his slaves. There is no evidence to indicate that. At least none that I have come across. However, the contradiction of his actions should be presented, as this is a biography. As this contradiction is likely based on his economic dependence on slavery, as I illustrated above with his quotes, I think that should be presented as well. Jefferson may have said that he abhorred slavery, but his actions and words present a contradiction. Wikipedia cannot present a sanitized version of Jefferson. It is best for people to view the man as a whole and make up their own minds. I say this as a Jefferson admirer and as a descendant of slave holders. My wife is also a direct descendant of Judith Jefferson, Jefferson's Aunt. [[User:Joe bob attacks|Joe bob attacks]] ([[User talk:Joe bob attacks|talk]]) 19:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

==Further reductions==