Talk:Victoria Cross: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
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==Legacy section, subsection "Memorials" - suggested improving addition==
== External links modified ==
There is an apparent omission in the subsection the addition of which would be an improvement in this Featured Article. During the years of the centenary anniversaries of the First World War (2014 to 2018) commemorative stones to VC recipients of the war were presented to and unveiled at the recipients' home towns. I have lost memory how that was organised, did a government department pay for them? Did it apply only within the UK? I know for example Oswestry in Shropshire received one, placed in Cae Glas Park, in honour of Harold Whitfield in 2018.[[User:Cloptonson|Cloptonson]] ([[User talk:Cloptonson|talk]]) 17:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on [[Victoria Cross]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=802937325 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070716121642/http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/vc/page3.shtml to http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/vc/page3.shtml
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160927134455/https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/vic_cross/ to https://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/vic_cross/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090531073731/http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/exhibits/index.cfm?page=63 to http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/exhibits/index.cfm?page=63
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141006105140/http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/vic_cross/ to http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/vic_cross/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608090454/http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/shop?catId=9300091&pageType=Others&pageId=shp_prddetails&product=prod40680016 to http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/shop?catId=9300091&pageType=Others&pageId=shp_prddetails&product=prod40680016
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 12:28, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
== Beharry ==
The sentence about Johnson Beharry was added at the time of the award, when he was the most recent recipient and the first in a long time. It has survived until now, but given that two other awards have been made since, I think it is no longer worth mentioning here. It is just one of three relatively recent awards, and no longer the most recent. So I've deleted this sentence. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 13:50, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
== Grammar query "in the face of the enemy" ==
The first line of this article includes the phrase "in the face of the enemy". This is a misquote but it is so common that you seldom see the correct quote used. Since it is not a quote should it have quotation marks? [[User:Anthony Staunton|Anthony Staunton]] ([[User talk:Anthony Staunton|talk]]) 13:28, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:Not exactly a misquote, but nor -- as I understand it -- is it a quotation. I have removed the quotes. I have also removed the wikilink to [[combat]], as my understanding is that is not what is meant. For example, an unarmed medic can receive the VC for rescuing wounded men in the face of the enemy, without engaging in combat. [[User:MPS1992|MPS1992]] ([[User talk:MPS1992|talk]]) 19:28, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
::The warrant says "in the presence of the enemy" so I've put that. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 23:16, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
== Source of bronze ==
The article gives conflicting information on the source of the bronze used for the VC:
* (Introduction) 'Research has established that the metal for most of the medals made since December 1914 came from two Chinese cannon that were captured from the Russians in 1855'.
* (Manufacture) '… the metal used for almost all VCs since December 1914 is taken from antique Chinese guns, replacing an earlier gun. … A likely explanation is that these cannon were taken as trophies during the First Opium War …'
For consistency, would it be better to replace 'captured from the Russians in 1855’ and insert ‘possibly taken as trophies during the First Opium War.’?
A reference for the origin of the Chinese guns would help - is there one?
[[User:Hsq7278|<b style="color:#000080"><small>Hsq7278</small></b>]] ([[User talk:Hsq7278|<b style="color:#F80"><small>talk</small></b>]]) 17:21, 1 June 2018
:Thanks for spotting that. There's no evidence for Russian cannon, and there are sources for Chinese. I have corrected the article. I'm not aware of any source for the Opium War, but I suppose if we captured them from the Chinese then it was probably in one of the Opium Wars. I'm not sure that's good enough for an encyclopedia though. [[User:Richard75|Richard75]] ([[User talk:Richard75|talk]]) 19:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
There is a another slight inconsistency within the article. In the "Separate Commonwealth awards" section it says that the Australian and New Zealand medals are "cast from the same Crimean War gunmetal as the British VC" [[User:RichWA|RichWA]] ([[User talk:RichWA|talk]]) 14:03, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
== Elizabeth Webber Harris VC? ==
I have made a page for [[Elizabeth Webber Harris]] who was awarded an honorary VC. Someone here may have some corrections on terminology, relating as to how much of a real VC this was etc. Please be bold. ([[User:Dushan Jugum|Dushan Jugum]] ([[User talk:Dushan Jugum|talk]]) 07:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)).
:It wasnt a real VC and certainly not honorary, a replica in appreciation maybe. [[User:MilborneOne|MilborneOne]] ([[User talk:MilborneOne|talk]]) 19:19, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
::Thanks, changed to replica. ([[User:Dushan Jugum|Dushan Jugum]] ([[User talk:Dushan Jugum|talk]]) 19:38, 6 March 2019 (UTC)).
== The Victoria Cross ranks with the George Cross as the nation's highest award for gallantry ==
The current article starts with:
:"The Victoria Cross (VC) is the highest and most prestigious award of the British honours system."
However the British government website does not back up this assertion.
*{{cite web | title=Medals: campaigns, descriptions and eligibility | website=GOV.UK | date=12 December 2012 | url=https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility | access-date=26 June 2019}}
It states:
:"The Victoria Cross is the premier Operational Gallantry..."
And also states:
:"The George Cross is the premier award given for non-operational gallantry or gallantry not in the presence of an enemy".
As the government web page:
*{{cite web | title='Heroes' gather for George Cross and Medal commemoration | website=Defence in the media | date=24 September 2015 | url=https://modmedia.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/24/heroes-gather-for-george-cross-and-medal-commemoration/ | access-date=26 June 2019}}
states:
:"Members of the Armed Forces can receive the GC for acts of gallantry not in the presence of the enemy, for example, military explosive ordnance disposal personnel"
So HMG probably considers that with the changing nature of warfare the MC is more likely to be awarded in the future and the British government does not want it implied that helping wounded men out of the line of fire of a robotic machine gun is any less valiant that a similar action against a manned machine gun.
This is not a particularly new position. In this 2006 British Government paper:
*{{cite web | title=Fact Sheets - Guide to Honours | website=Defence Internet | date=22 March 2006 | url=https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.operations.mod.uk/honours/honours.htm | ref={{sfnref | Defence Internet | 2006}} | access-date=26 June 2019}}
It is stated in the paper
:"The Victoria Cross ranks with the George Cross as the nation's highest award for gallantry."
and just a little lower down the same article:
:"The George Cross ranks with the Victoria Cross as the nation's highest award for gallantry,"
== Because of its rarity, the VC is highly prized ... ==
Because of the different age of the awards one can make a technical argument about precedence, but until a person is awarded both medals this is of academic interest only (angles on pinheads). As it is misleading for those who do not realise that prestige and precedence are not necessarily linked, it should not be presented in the lead, but if it must be mentioned then it should be in the body of the article.
I am dropping ‘Because of its rarity’ and will start the second paragraph with ‘the VC is highly prized’. It is not rare compared to many medals including the George Cross, the four Albert Medals and the Conspicuous Gallantry Medals to name a few. The prestige of the VC has always been high and with so many now in public institutions, the number available for sale or auction is decreasing. [[User:Anthony Staunton|Anthony Staunton]] ([[User talk:Anthony Staunton|talk]]) 07:36, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Given the British Government's position what is the source that covers the first sentence in this Wikipedia article? -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 13:16, 26 June 2019 (UTC)