Template talk:Did you know - Wikipedia

This page is for nominations to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page. If you nominate an article, please consider reviewing another nomination. This will help cut down on the number of unreviewed nominations.

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Purge

Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the bottom. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination. Every approved hook will appear on the main page.

DYK criteria

How to list a new nomination

Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.

1. Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
2. Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}

   To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook: |article2= |article3= |article4= | (etc)

   To include more than one author: |author2= |author3= | (etc)

   To include alternate hooks: |ALT1= |ALT2= | (etc)

   To add a comment: |comment=

   To add the article you reviewed: |reviewed=

Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however.
Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you.
Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template.
Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.

An example of how to use the template is given below. Don't forget to fill out the rollover text, so people know what the image is of! Full details are at {{NewDYKnom}}:

{{subst:NewDYKnom
 | article    = Example
 | status     = new<!--(or)  expanded-->
 | hook       = ... that this [[article]] is an  '''[[example]]''' ''(pictured)''?
 | author     = User
 | nominator  =
 | image      = Example.png
 | rollover   = An example image
 | alttext    = Description of the image
 | comment    =
}}

• Note that you should only use one of the above templates for the original hook. If you want to suggest a second, alternative hook for the same article submission, just type it in manually. The above templates output useful code for each submission and if you employ them for alternative hooks, you will mess up the page formatting.
• When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
• Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
• If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name}}

How to review a nomination

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, or may suggest new hooks. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the additional rules.

If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or note that there is an issue with the article or hook, please use the following symbols to point the issues out:

Symbol	Code	DYK Ready?	Description
	{{subst:DYKtick}}	Yes	No problems, ready for DYK
	{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}	Yes	Article is ready for DYK, with a foreign-language or offline hook reference accepted in good faith
	{{subst:DYK?}}	Query	DYK eligibility requires that an issue be addressed. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
	{{subst:DYK?no}}	Maybe	DYK eligibility requires additional work. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
	{{subst:DYKno}}	No	Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible

Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page, in case they do not notice that there is an issue.

Backlogged?

This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first (so that those hooks don't grow stale), it may take several days until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions above).

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the hook you submitted to this page, in most cases it means your article has been approved and is in the queue for display on the main page. You can check whether your hook has been moved to the queue by reviewing the queue listings.

If your hook is not in the queue or already on the main page, it has probably been deleted. Deletion occurs if the hook is more than about eight days old and has unresolved issues for which any discussion has gone stale. If you think your hook has been unfairly deleted, you can query its deletion on the discussion page, but as a general rule deleted hooks will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.

Articles created/expanded on November 13

Kadua

• ... that twenty-two of the species of flowering plants in the genus Kadua are endemic to the Hawaiian Islands?

Created by Usb10 (talk). Self nom at 15:53, 13 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Cited source is unclear, you need to provide an unambiguous source for the hook. Gatoclass (talk) 10:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  Also, article is 116 characters short. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 02:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

It's 1654 characters according to DYKcheck. Gatoclass (talk) 09:53, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Alt Hook 1: ... that the genus Kadua was erected in 1829 by Adelbert von Chamisso and Diederich von Schlechtendal? Usb10 ^Connected? 01:23, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I can't verify that because it's a pdf file in a foreign language. Gatoclass (talk) 14:58, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

ALT2: ... that in 1999, twenty species of the genus Kadua were described as species of Hedyotis in a flora of Hawaii? Usb10 ^Connected? 15:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

 AGFing offline sources and that reference #1 covers the original hook. Also bowing to Gato's DYKcheck-fu. All OK, prefer the original hook. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 00:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  I was going to promote it but .. The main issue is even the most interesting, main hook, is too dull. It is "supported" by ref 1, which in a coded way, on page 448, says that of 28 species 21 are endemic to Hawaii. The article does not explain why it writes 29/22. It seems to me like a newcomer nomination, and I was going to fix it, but not sure I'll have time. It is too risky to feature it, IMO, but I would be glad to change my mind. Materialscientist (talk) 00:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Articles created/expanded on November 17

Madison Square Presbyterian Church, New York City (1854)

• ... that the Madison Square Presbyterian Church building completed in 1854 was knocked down to become the site of the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company Tower (pictured), then the world's tallest building?

5x expanded by Alansohn (talk). Self nom at 02:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   The hook statement "then the world's tallest building" does not appear in the article. Also the completion date of 1854 is not cited in the article. —Bruce1ee^talk 07:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hey, Jeannie!

• ... that early in their careers Chuck Connors and Mike Connors guest starred in Jeannie Carson's short-lived CBS sitcom Hey, Jeannie!?

Created by Billy Hathorn (talk). Self nom at 22:31, 17 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

... that English actress Jeannie Carson's attempt at series television, on CBS and in syndication, failed with her 1956-1958 sitcom Hey, Jeannie!?

Can you complete ref. 2 please? Materialscientist (talk) 23:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Reference 2 completed. Billy Hathorn (talk) 04:58, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   The main reference for this article doesn't appear to conform with WP:V, it's an anonymous website, and there is no information about where the data is sourced. Gatoclass (talk) 05:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Articles created/expanded on November 18

Venues of the 1980 Summer Olympics

• ... that following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, three of the venues used for the 1980 Summer Olympics would be in four new sovereign states formed afterwards?

Created by Miller17CU94 (talk). Self nom at 23:58, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Wouldn't it be four? The Russian Federation was just as 'new' as Belarus, Ukraine and Estonia. In fact, there were no 'new' nations when USSR was dissolved, just existing SSRs (which in theory at last, according to the Soviet constitution, were sovereign states). --Soman (talk) 18:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Reworded. Chris (talk) 20:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Still, it should be four. Moscow is in neither Belarus, Ukraine nor Estonia. --Soman (talk) 20:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Take 2. Chris (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Suggestion for ALT1: "that following the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the venues used for the 1980 Summer Olympics were divided between four of the new sovereign states formed afterwards?" --Soman (talk) 02:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

That would work, but the venue in Kiev, Minsk, and Tallinn went to Ukraine, Belarus, and Estonia, respectively, while the remaining 25 venues listed remained in Russia. Something to be aware of in order not to confuse the reader. Chris (talk) 03:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

It is not different. The remaining 25 venues "went to Russia". A clarification, it is not that Ukraine in 1991 became independent from Russia. Russian and Ukraine were both Soviet Republics that became independent from the Soviet Union. --Soman (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Then your hook will work. Thank you for your help. Chris (talk) 14:05, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT 2. Just a re-ordering, but I prefer: "that the Venues of the 1980 Summer Olympics, all then in the Soviet Union, were by 1991 divided between four countries?" - in fact there's now room to list them, but it's probably best to leave that to whet curiosity. Johnbod (talk) 14:36, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• That will work as well. Chris (talk) 20:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Heraclius (brother of Tiberius III), Heraclius (son of Constans II), Tiberius (son of Constans II)

• ... that Constantine IV's attempt to demote his brothers and Byzantine co-emperors Heraclius and Tiberius prompted a revolt from military officers who believed that, as Heaven was ruled by the Trinity, the empire should also be governed by three emperors?

• Comment: I'll attempt to shorten this hook.--PFHLai (talk) 00:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC) Now 251 characters, but probably still too long. --PFHLai (talk) 19:32, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Oatley2112 (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 00:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• How about ALT1: ... that Constantine IV's attempt to demote Byzantine co-emperors Heraclius and Tiberius prompted a revolt from military officers, who believed that the empire should be governed by three emperors? - PM800 (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, PM800. But right now, I'd like to nominate Heraclius (brother of Tiberius III) and make a triple-DYK hook. Let me think.... :-) --PFHLai (talk) 23:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• (triple hook #1)... that Heraclius, a Byzantine general executed in 705, was the brother of deposed emperor Tiberius III, whereas Heraclius, mutilated in 681, was himself a co-emperor dethroned along with his brother Tiberius?

• (triple hook #2)... that when Tiberius was dethroned in 681, he and his brother and Byzantine co-emperor Heraclius were mutilated, but after Tiberius III was deposed in 705, he and his brother Heraclius were executed?
  

Created by Cplakidas (talk) & Oatley2112 (talk). --PFHLai (talk) 03:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• The original hook is far more interesting imo. The triple hooks are just confusing. How about: ALT2-3: ... that a belief that the Empire should, like Heaven, have three co-rulers, led to a revolt when Constantine IV attempted to demote his brothers Heraclius and Tiberius? Johnbod (talk) 14:46, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Agree that the original hook is better and more interesting. There is also really no basis for a comparison between the cases of Tiberius and Heraclius the co-emperors and TIberius III and his brother, as the latter had actually usurped the throne. Constantine ✍ 14:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
• I agree the original hook was best too. However I'm not all that keen on the fact that two new articles have been created - one about each brother - with almost identical text; it seems unnecessary duplication. If all the pertinent facts about them are applicable to both, then I would have thought that a single merged article was to be preferred (per WP:Merging). For that reason I have put merge templates on each page, and opened discussion at Talk:Heraclius (son of Constans II)#Merge discussion. DavidWard ^talk 21:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Well, I find it quite interesting that two unrelated pairs of brothers with the same two names had eerily similar fates a generation apart, except that the violence has escalated over time. But if no one else finds this interesting, never mind. How about this (based on John's):

• ALT3: ... that a belief that the Byzantine Empire should, as in Heaven, have three co-rulers, led to a revolt when Constantine IV attempted to demote his brothers and co-emperors Heraclius and Tiberius?

I don't mind the merge. Just please don't do this merging while the pages are linked from MainPage. It's better to merge them before they go on DYK-Q or after they go off MainPage. Thanks. I'll try to come up with a new hook for the other Heraclius. --PFHLai (talk) 14:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC) I am unable to come up with any interesting hook material for the other Heraclius to have a single hook, so I hope someone else besides me find my triple-hook interesting. Otherwise, please ignore this other Heraclius and use the double-hook. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 13:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Articles created/expanded on November 19

The Ford Show

• ... that Tennessee Ernie Ford closed most episodes of his 1956-1961 NBC series, The Ford Show, with a hymn?

Created by Billy Hathorn (talk). Self nom at 20:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT1 ... that the NBC television series The Ford Show referred to the sponsor, the Ford Motor Company, rather than the star, Tennessee Ernie Ford?

•   The ALT1 hook is better and is verified through the cite given and Google Books, and the creation date is okay. But much of the article size is taken up with a very long list (strangely formatted) of guest stars. This is inappropriate content based on WP:NOTADIR. This long list needs to be removed from the article, and replaced by something that summarizes what kind of guest stars the show attracted. The "Program Notes" section of the article also suffers from mostly not being about this program, but other programs. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Correction made Billy Hathorn (talk) 00:57, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• The "Other guest stars" section needs to be removed completely. The "Program procedures" section should come first, before the "Selected guest stars" section. The "Miscellany" section should be retitled "Scheduling" or something like that. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Death panels (political term)

• ... outrageous, nuts, startling, make believe, a lie, and politics were words used to describe what Sarah Palin (pictured) found, after she called it like she saw it, and saw death panels?

Created by Jesanj (talk). Self nom at 04:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but the hook makes no sense to me. Further (i) regular DYK hooks should not be misleading, as some news titles, (ii) Palin was surely called by many dozens of terms and words. It is unclear why should they be repeated in this hook (personal opinion of unclear notability). Materialscientist (talk) 06:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I'm not sure as to what exactly you find misleading. Perhaps it was that she "saw" as in physically. That is a figure of speech she used in a October 2010 Newsmax interview. I was trying to make it interesting and weird so people would click on it. By the way, these descriptors are for death panels, not Palin herself. Must the notability of the descriptors be defined in the hook, although they are already established in the article? Jesanj (talk) 18:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

 Blatantly POV hook. - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 06:28, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I thought POV occurs when we aren't reflecting what reliable sources say. Outrageous: American Dialect Society; Nuts: Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-GA); Startling: David Casarett, MD, MA, prof of medicine at UPenn & Medical Director at a VA Hospital; [M]ake believe: bioethicist George Annas from an Oxford University Press published book; Lie: PolitiFact.com; Politics: Atul Gawande, MD, author, Harvard professor, surgeon, journalist. It seems neutral to me to use this terminology. Jesanj (talk) 18:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Chiming in because I saw this one, yeah that hook won't fly, but it could be: ... that Sarah Palin coined the term death panels in 2009 regarding Health care reform in the United States?--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 13:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I should note there seems to have been a debate in the past whether this article should exist. see Talk:Death panel.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 14:36, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Yes, I noticed those discussions after I wrote the page. It appears that was before publications/papers that discuss the term and its problems/repercussions etc., were being cited (as some hadn't been published) such as:

Brendan Nyhan (2010). "Why the "Death Panel" Myth Wouldn't Die: Misinformation in the Health Care Reform Debate" (PDF). The Forum. 8 (1). Berkeley Electronic Press. doi:10.2202/1540-8884.1354.

Kettl P (2010). "One Vote for Death Panels". JAMA. 303 (13): 1234–5. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.376. PMID 20371773.

Corn BW (2009). "Ending end-of-life phobia — a prescription for enlightened health care reform". N. Engl. J. Med. 361 (27): e63. doi:10.1056/NEJMp0909740. PMID 20018960. Jesanj (talk) 18:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

The previous existence of the article "Death panel" (here) might be a factor in determining whether it belongs at DYK. However, that article content is long gone, it seems to have focused on the concept of death panels while the new article focuses on the term, and the new article is about 4x longer. --Orlady (talk) 21:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Originally I had something more like this in mind before I started appying the descriptors to the term: (ALT2) ... that Sarah Palin (pictured) called it like she saw it, and coined the term death panels, earning her the "Lie of the Year" for 2009 from PolitiFact.com? Jesanj (talk) 18:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Here's a possible ALT hook derived from the lead of the article. It focuses on the term, not the person:

• ALT2 ... that the term "death panels," which Sarah Palin (pictured) coined on her Facebook page, was named "Lie of the Year" by PolitiFact.com and the "Most Outrageous" word of 2009 by the American Dialect Society? --Orlady (talk) 21:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Looks good. Thanks. Jesanj (talk) 04:18, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I, personally, believe the subject is too political-POVish for Wikipedia, but I can't fault the hook, and I won't buck the flow if everybody else thinks its OK. :) - The Bushranger _{Return fire}^{Flank speed} 18:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  I've moved this from the prep queue back here for further discussion, per talk page concerns. 28bytes (talk) 16:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I do have some concerns about this one, however I don't have time to outline them now, I will have to return to this tomorrow. However I will say that one of my concerns is that the article appears to be taking a position on the topic instead of just quoting reliable sources. Gatoclass (talk) 17:24, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

WP:NOTCENSORED. Put it back. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I have to agree with Gatoclass here. The article does have a bit of a slant to it. Once that's resolved there shouldn't be any problem promoting it again. (And WP:NOTCENSORED doesn't apply here. DYK may not be FA, but we do have some discretion here what gets promoted and when.) 28bytes (talk) 19:45, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hello. I am looking forward to hearing suggestions and making improvements. I suppose the abstract of this review published in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine sums up the POV I think is reflected in the article—that "the existence of 'death panels', can easily be dismissed". (Desai M, Rachet B, Coleman MP, McKee M (2010). "Two countries divided by a common language: health systems in the UK and USA". J R Soc Med. 103 (7): 283–7. doi:10.1258/jrsm.2010.100126. PMID 20595532. CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)) I think this POV is probably reflected in the article because it reflects mainstream scholarship and professional opinion on the issue. Thus my multiple citations from Health Affairs publications. Also, do a quick google search on what Uwe Reinhardt or Gail Wilensky have said on this issue. They are mainstream experts on health care reform. I think their opinions should be added but I have yet to get there. Thanks. Jesanj (talk) 04:07, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I'll wait for Gatoclass to chime in with his specific concerns before getting too in-depth here, but I'll just note that using the words "myth" and "lie" in the headers is one symptom of the article's POV problem, IMO. Additional reliable sources are welcome, of course, but I think the primary concern is that the article appears to "endorse" the existing sources. It will take a little work to fix that, but I think it's quite doable. 28bytes (talk) 04:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

The more I look at the article, the more it looks to me to be irredeemable. It presents the information from a particular perspective instead of taking a neutral stance and simply presenting what various sources have said and allowing the reader to make up his own mind. I'm happy to see what 28bytes can come up with, but I have my doubts the article is fixable with just a tweak here and there. Gatoclass (talk) 05:04, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I'm not going to say that the article isn't POV (it is, and it has too many quotes), but if the claim is/was verifiably a myth, I don't see a problem with that being reflected in the article. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

If I came to this article knowing nothing about the topic, I would not leave it enlightened as to how the term is "verifiably a myth". I just see competing claims, albeit presented in a one-sided manner. Apart from which, NPOV requires that information is presented neutrally, we are not supposed to be taking sides. I think that's especially important when it comes to major political debates. I don't want to be giving conservatives more ammunition to be attacking Wikipedia as a supposedly biased "liberal" enclave, I think we have to try and be scrupulously neutral when it comes to a debate like this. Gatoclass (talk) 05:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

OK, I've redone the lead section. I'm going to tackle the rest of it tomorrow. Suggestions/comments/improvements are welcome, although those should probably be made at Talk:Death panels (political term) rather than here. Incidentally, is there any reason why the article is not at Death Panels? It probably ought to be moved there, and the history merged. 28bytes (talk) 07:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I don't understand why this edit is neutral because both[1][2](p. 8) sources use the word false. Jesanj (talk) 14:10, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

As I mentioned above, the article appears to strongly "endorse" the views of the sources rather than simply present them. I wouldn't worry overmuch about that specific diff, since that whole paragraph is going to get redone. There are just way too many cases of the article saying something is "false", "a myth", "a lie", etc., which makes Wikipedia appear to take sides rather than be an disinterested observer. I'm going to attempt to fix that later today. 28bytes (talk) 18:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Mosca's

• ... that New Orleans crime family boss Carlos Marcello was a regular customer at the Louisiana Creole Italian restaurant Mosca's?

• ALT1:... that Provino Mosca, the founder of the Louisiana Creole Italian restaurant Mosca's, was reported to have been a chef for Al Capone, despite being dismissed by his family?

Created by Arxiloxos (talk). Nominated by Secret Saturdays (talk) at 18:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Date and length check out. The online excerpt does not support any of the hook claims. That itself would not be a major problem (considering AGF for sources requiring subscription) but the claim that Marcello was a customer seems odd; he co-founded the restaurant. Can someone confirm that this is stated in the offline source? --Pgallert (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
•   For ALT1 (which should probably end in "[..], although Mosca's family dismisses this rumour"), my major concern is the reliability of all four sources: Travel guides that cite local hearsay are not exactly my imagination of WP:RS. Invite second opinion on whether I am too picky here. --Pgallert (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Apologies for my not responding sooner to the message at my talk page--I've been out of town for the holiday. With respect to the first hook, the cited Calvin Trillin article in The New Yorker describes Carlos Marcello as "regular" and "landlord"--it was his building, but I don't know that there is support for calling him a "cofounder". The paragraph (on p.62) reads as follows:

It turns out that another Mosca's story about what people in Chicago used to call The Outfit is true: Carlos Marcello, widely referred to as the crime boss of New Orleans, was indeed a regular. In fact, he was the Moscas' landlord. When the family decided to move to New Orleans, John told me, an acquaintance found them a corner bar for sale on the New Orleans side of the river, just over the Jefferson Parish line, but the deal fell through. So Marcello, whom they knew through mutual friends in Chicago Heights, rented them the white building on Highway 90. They speak of him as not only their landlord but their friend, and they say that in their dealings with him he was always a gentleman. (When John's older brother, Nick, who died in 1997, left the business, in 1960, it was to operate a restaurant in partnership with Marcello's brother.) Eventually, Marcello sold the Moscas a lot a hundred yards or so from the restaurant, where they built a neat brick house; John and Mary Jo brought up their daughter, Lisa, there. But Marcello never got around to selling the restaurant itself, his son is now the landlord.

The New Yorker article (pp. 62-63) also supports the ALT1 hook, although I agree with Pgallert's preference for the first one:

On my recent visit, I learned that, contrary to what I'd heard and read and repeated, Provino Mosca was never Al Capone's chef. It's true that Chicago Heights was a suburb that, like Capone's headquarters of Cicero, had a number of citizens whose funerals were likely to be observed from across the street by the F.B.I. And Mary Jo Mosca told me that her maternal grandmother, Pasqua Frattura, once catered a baptismal party at which Al Capone was the godfather. Not the godfather like Marlon Brando; the baby's godfather. (According to the story, Capone came back to the kitchen and gave each of the caterers a hundred-dollar bill. Pasqua Frattura bought a stove.) But Provino Mosca apparently never laid eyes on Al Capone. I'm not someone who finds the Mob romantic—real mobsters are less punctilious than the Corleones, who in three blood-spattered movies managed not to harm anyone who wasn't a criminal himself—but I always enjoyed imagining what it might have been like to be Al Capone's chef. Just consider the potential consequences of, say, bringing out a plate of slightly overdone fish. I suppose I have to quit telling the Capone story, although I do so reluctantly. I'm not much for change.

--Arxiloxos (talk) 23:56, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to verify the first hook, but as the info appears to be behind a paywall I'd be reluctant to verify a hook like this without confirmation. The second hook I think a bit clumsy. Gatoclass (talk) 05:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Brazil–Portugal relations

• ... that Brazil and Portugal have a privileged relationship as a result of the Portuguese Empire?

Created by Lihaas (talk). Self nom at 01:42, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ready, while undergoing further expansion as it was just created recently.Lihaas (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   The proposed hook is obvious and dull, and should be replaced by something readers won't know. The article has at least two challenge tags ([citation needed], [where?]) that need to be fixed before it hits the main page. The references have short-form book cites (Bethel, Alden, etc) with no long-form base entry anywhere. Some of the other references are nearly bare ("Gringoes", "Portugal - Brazil and East Timor"). Wasted Time R (talk) 12:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Would it be less obvious and dull if the hook says "except in 1894, ..."? --PFHLai (talk) 03:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I don't think we can take the Portugese government's word that it has a "privileged" relationship with Brazil, as it could be taken as self-serving. I think either an independent source would be required or a new hook found. Gatoclass (talk) 05:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

The refs are formatted using reflinks, should be good. The offline refs were done by another editor, who i just notified of the update/cleaning needed. Fact tags are now clean, and the "where" tag is cleaned.Lihaas (talk) 09:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Articles created/expanded on November 20

dudesnude

• ... that porn star Tory Mason was discovered after a film company discovered his dudesnude profile?

Created by User:HEMANETWORK (talk). Self nom at 13:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Article is at AfD - hold pending result of discussion. EdChem (talk) 15:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Update... AfD has been closed as 'keep', assessment of the article can now proceed. EdChem (talk) 01:54, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have a new username as i could no longer maintain hemanetwork, i still want this article to show up on DYK however.Thisbites (talk) 10:02, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I have confirmed the ban of the hemanetwork user name, and changed the DYKmake credit to Thisbites. You might want to post notices on both user pages recording the connection between these accounts. EdChem (talk) 12:09, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  Needs rewording. The source says "somebody saw my profile and asked me if I wanted to do porn" which does not involve a film company. My guess follows. Will notify Thisbites. -SusanLesch (talk) 04:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

ALT1:... that porn star Tory Mason was discovered through his dudesnude profile?

That works fine, and I can't edit that profile, it doesn't really matter to me though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisbites (talk • contribs) 06:16, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  Verified. (I can't vouch for notability.) -SusanLesch (talk) 06:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Ludvig Karsten

• ... that Norwegian neo-impressionist painter Ludvig Karsten is represented at the National Gallery of Norway with several paintings, including Blue kitchen (pictured) from 1913?

• ALT1:... that Norwegian neo-impressionist painter Ludvig Karsten (self portrait) is represented at art museums in Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen?

5x expanded by Hauganm (talk), Oceanh (talk). Nominated by Oceanh (talk) at 21:51, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Neither the article nor the hooks are interesting reading. The article is barely above the 1500 limit and much space is taken by names. Given the recent (and justified) criticism of Margrethe Munthe at WT:DYK I would request higher quality from something to be featured on the main page. Materialscientist (talk) 08:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I think getting several paintings in a National Gallery qualifies as exceptional, so I'm verifying this one. There doesn't appear to be an alt hook in the article in any case. Gatoclass (talk) 11:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• On second thoughts, I think this hook would be a lot more attractive if it included an article on the painting Blue kitchen itself, or one of Karsten's other works. Gatoclass (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

2010–11 Atlantic 10 Conference men's basketball season

• ... that Richmond's Kevin Anderson was named the preseason Player of the Year of the 2010–11 Atlantic 10 Conference men's basketball season?

Created by Editorofthewiki (talk). Self nom at 01:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   The source says that Anderson is on the Preseason First Team and Preseason All-Defensive team, but it doesn't say anything about the Preseason Player of the Year. - PM800 (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
  • Yes it does. Look in the second paragraph of "preseason". ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 23:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
    • I know that it says "Preseason Player of the Year" in the second paragraph of "Preseason" in the article. However, I was talking about what was in the actual cited source (reference #4). - PM800 (talk) 23:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
      • "Four of the five student-athletes represented on last year's A-10 All-Conference First Team were named to this year's Preseason First Team including the reigning A-10 Player of the Year in Richmond's Kevin Anderson." This pretty much means he was preseason POY. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 22:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Who is this Kevin Anderson? His fans may find this hook interesting, but ... who is this guy? Does he deserve a wikibio? --PFHLai (talk) 05:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Kevfin Anderson is quite notable. Go ahead and start his article; it's on my to-do list. Some sources predict he will be a second-round choice in the 2011 NBA Draft. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 22:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Francis Wingfield

• ... that when Francis Wingfield was elected MP for Stamford in 1660, a previous MP was also listed and the Alderman of Stamford had to travel to Parliament to correct the return?

Created by Rich Farmbrough (talk). Self nom at 02:42, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

If anyone can improve the wording - great. Rich Farmbrough, 02:42, 21 November 2010 (UTC).Reply

  doesn't appear to meet 1500 characters, when the entire article is only 1228, and 854 of that is a block quote. Worm 14:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hm I must have gone on bytes... there is more material on the talk page, and I'm visiting the Museum tomorrow, to see what they have. Rich Farmbrough, 17:17, 29 November 2010 (UTC).Reply

Nels Johnson, Century tower clocks

• ... that Nels Johnson built Century tower clocks (Milwaukee City Hall tower clock example pictured) - clocks designed to last 100 years?

Created by Doug Coldwell (talk). Self nom at 23:14, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• This doesn't directly affect the DYK nomination, but I note that Johnson died in 1915 and most of his clocks were built more than 100 years ago. It would be nice if one of these articles went into detail about how many of the clocks actually lasted 100 years (or, if they didn't, what happened to them; one can't blame Johnson if a building was torn down before his clock stopped working). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Good comment! I know that several of his clocks, most built around 1900 plus or minus 10 years are STILL going. I'll have to research this and add to the article, as that would be interesting information. One such tower clock is the Mason County courthouse tower clock. It was installed in 1906, but originally built in 1892 and installed originally in a church. It is about 3 blocks from where I live and I hear it "bong" every hour accurately, day in and day out 24-7-365. Interestingly, lately it has been "bonging" 13 times for 1 o'clock, day or night! That started around Halloween.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 23:17, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Assuming you don't want to change anything re the above comment (100 years on),   Date and length verified for both articles, offline sources accepted on good faith (especially due to the title!)--Worm 10:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Antonio Te Maioha, Xtreme Waste

• ... that actor Antonio Te Maioha, who plays a gladiator nicknamed the "Beast of Carthage" in the television drama Spartacus: Blood and Sand, is also interested in environmentalism and recycling?

Created by Thruxton (talk). Self nom at 14:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Date, length, hook ref verified. Tweaked hook and it's good to go. Yoninah (talk) 22:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

  I don't understand the hook (i) why these two parts are combined, are they related in any way? (ii) "interested" is very dubious on itself, and the last part is clearly aiming at his card-core fans who want to know every little detail about him. Anything more interesting for a general audience? Materialscientist (talk) 01:03, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT1: ... that actor Antonio Te Maioha (pictured), who is of Maori descent on his father's side, plays a gladiator nicknamed the "Beast of Carthage" in the television drama Spartacus: Blood and Sand? --La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
• ALT2: ... that actor Antonio Te Maioha plays a homosexual Roman gladiator in the television drama Spartacus: Blood and Sand? --La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Agree with Materialscientist, more or less. (i) Either part of the hook could, in principle, stand alone. (ii) The references and original article do not seem to mention Te Maioha's involvement in environmentalism beyond recycling, and are vague about the nature of Te Maioha's involvement with recycling. I'm doing some work on the article, since there seems to be a lot of interesting information about the actor and his roles. I'll post again with what I come up with. --La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk) 06:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Further comment: I would favor a DYK that focuses on the environmental aspect of Te Maioha's work, since I do get the impression that he is using his fame and publicity to promote this very worthy cause. --La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk) 07:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Such as:

• ALT3: ... that actor Antonio Te Maioha (pictured) of the television drama Spartacus: Blood and Sand publicly promotes the recycling organization Xtreme Waste, but resists being called an environmentalist? Created by Thruxton (talk), La comadreja (talk). Nominated by La comadreja (talk) at 08:39, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

tkWWW

• ... that the tkWWW web browser, released May 1993, was the first X11 HTML editor?

Created by Mabdul (talk). Self nom at 19:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALt1:... that the tkWWW web browser was so modular that there exists other web browser and web crawlers upon?

•   The problem with the online cite in the article to the fact in the hook ("was the first X11 HTML editor") is that this claim is made by the author of the software, not an independent source. Is there an independent cite for this fact? - Tim1965 (talk) 01:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

another reference is visible at google books (the second book: "Managing Internet information services"). Is this enough or do I need for more? mabdul 13:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• That works for that cite. There appears to be a broader issue with the article, though, regarding verifiability and lack of neutral third-party sources. DYK general rule five requires that articles meet general Wikipedia guidelines on verifiability before being approved for DYK. That would need to happen in order for the hook to be approved. - Tim1965 (talk) 14:38, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Yeah I know. When I did the nomination "everything was fine". I'm working on that. mabdul 14:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

The Pat Boone Chevy Showroom

• ... that until The Donny & Marie Show in 1976, Pat Boone, 23 in 1957, had been the youngest person in television history to host a network variety show, ABC's The Pat Boone Chevy Showroom?

Created by Billy Hathorn (talk). Self nom at 19:57, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I can't agree with the hook (which is sourced only to Pat Boone's own web site). Donny & Marie (1976 TV series) was hosted by Donny Osmond and Marie Osmond, both of whom were younger for the entire three-year run of their show than Boone was when he started his variety show. The Keane Brothers were even younger than Donny and Marie when they had their variety show for four weeks in 1977. I recommend finding a different hook. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 23:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I still can't agree with the hook as revised. There is no source provided that says what the hook currently says. I know that Donny & Marie were younger than Pat Boone when they had their variety show, but how do we know someone younger than Boone didn't host a variety show between 1957 and 1976? The source provided, which is Pat Boone's own web site, only says, "Boone became the youngest person to have his own weekly musical variety show". But if whoever wrote the biography didn't know about Donny & Marie or the Keane Brothers, maybe there were other young hosts they didn't know about either. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 18:28, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

ALT:... that ABC's The Pat Boone Chevy Showroom (1957-1960) invited numerous African American singers to perform, including Pearl Bailey, Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, Johnny Mathis, and The Mills Brothers?

Greg Koubek

• ... that Greg Koubek was the first men's basketball player to play in four NCAA Tournament Final Fours?

Created by Jrcla2 (talk). Self nom at 19:14, 20 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Source says "first college basketball player ever to play in four consecutive Final Four's", which doesn't quite match the hook and article. 97198 (talk) 07:19, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
  • Minor tweak:... that Greg Koubek was the first college basketball player to play in four consecutive NCAA Tournament Final Fours? Jrcla2 (talk) 01:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Ref.#2, cited 8 times in this article, is actually the website of the subject's own company. Is this a reliable, independent source of info? --PFHLai (talk) 02:22, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
  • Changed the ref for the hook in question. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Articles created/expanded on November 21

Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62

• ... that after the Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62, Mao Tsetung was seen as a monster, in the same league as Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin?

Created by Arilang1234 (talk). Self nom at 07:50, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   The book and topic are quite worthy of main page mention, but there are significant problems. The article is only 925 B readable prose size, short of the required 1500. The last sentence of the article is largely a copyvio from one of the reviews. The hook needs work as well, since many people have long considered Mao a monster on par with Hitler and Stalin and given that the book has only recently come out, it's premature to say whether it will affect public opinion (in the West or in China) on Mao. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:47, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply
• objection to the hook: the book was released two months ago. It's too early to pass judgements about its influence. And say it frankly: didn't you know it (about Mao) before? East of Borschov 21:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT1 ... that during the Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-62, among the 45 million premature deaths, at least 2 to 3 millions Chinese were buried alive, tortured or beaten to death.?
• I have changed the hook, and added more content to the article, and hope that that is OK now. Arilang ^talk 00:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• No, unfortunately, it isn't. The article still has a copyvio in it. The expansion of the article is with a bullet points list, which doesn't count in the readable prose stats. You have removed the old hook instead of showing an alternate, which makes this discussion hard to follow. And your new hook reads as though it is about the famine, when the hook needs to be about the book. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• Could someone else suggest an alternative hook? Arilang ^talk 01:06, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT2 ... that 2010 book Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62 states that 2–3 million Chinese were buried alive, tortured, or beaten to death during the famine?
• This will keep the point of your ALT1 hook but be about the book rather than the famine itself. But you still have a copyvio problem that has to be fixed before this can go on the main page. Consider this text from one of the book's reviews: "In terms of Mao's reputation this book leaves the Chairman for dead, as a monster in the same league as Hitler and Stalin - [...] It is a mark of the historical darkness that still envelops China that many Chinese blame the famine on the Soviet Union, which, they maintain, snatched food from the mouths of starving Chinese by insisting that Beijing export grain to repay Moscow's loans." Now look at this prose (not quoted) from your article: "thus putting Mao Tse-tung in the same league as Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin; and yet many Chinese still blame the famine on the Soviet Union, since they falsely believe that it was Soviet Union who was snatching food from the mouths of starving Chinese by insisting that Beijing export grain to repay Moscow's loans." Way too similar. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• The copyvio was removed by someone, but now the article is a bit underlength and has been tagged for being written as a list. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:24, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   Further work has been done. No tags remain; length, date, and ALT2 hook are okay. Good to go. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•   I have returned this one from the queue as it's clearly not ready for mainpage exposure. Apart from the fact that most of the paragraphs are uncited, this article leaves the impression that Mao and the communists deliberately set out to murder tens of millions of their own people, a claim which appears to be contradicted by the book itself. Gatoclass (talk) 14:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• The footnote 3 applies to all the paragraphs in the "Key arguments of the book", not just the last one. I okayed this after a lot of changes had been made because the topic is so important, but upon reflection, you're right that it's still not ready. Unfortunate. I'll ping the nominator again. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I will probably want to do some editing of this article myself as IMO it needs substantial work. Although really, I think it's time we started disqualifying POV articles outright. I'm tired of trying to bring other people's substandard articles up to scratch, I've got my own articles I want to write. Gatoclass (talk) 15:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I don't think it's a "POV article" per se. It isn't the Great Chinese Famine article, it's an article about a book about the famine. The article just has to accurately reflect the book's contents and the reactions to the book. Now I don't really know if it does that, not having read the book and not having looked for a lot of reactions. It would be especially useful to include the reaction of people in China (the government, historians, dissidents, etc) to the book, or whether the book even has any visibility there. Wasted Time R (talk) 15:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I am currently working on the article. I will leave a note here when I'm done and then someone else can review it. Gatoclass (talk) 06:53, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

But I will add that I think it is also going to need a new hook. The statement made by the author of the book on his website that "2 to 3 million Chinese were buried alive ..." during the famine strikes me as sensationalist, probably made to help sales of the book. I say this because not one review of the book I have read mentions people being "buried alive", although they all mention the other killings. This suggests to me that evidence for this claim in the actual book is either flimsy or else there were only isolated cases of such crimes. I can't imagine that reviewers would fail to note such a horrific method if it had been a widespread practice. Gatoclass (talk) 07:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

NLRB v. Fansteel Metallurgical Corp., NLRB v. Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co., National Labor Relations Board v. Sands Manufacturing Co.

• ... that one historian has argued that NLRB v. Fansteel Metallurgical Corp., NLRB v. Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co., and NLRB v. Sands Manufacturing Co. (all 1939) are the three most significant Supreme Court rulings on the National Labor Relations Act since NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation upheld the Act in 1937?

Created by Tim1965 (talk). Self nom at 02:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Ireland – South Africa relations

• ... that South African President Jacob Zuma (pictured) has commented on the "special relationship" between his country and Ireland?

Created by Candlewicke (talk). Self nom at 03:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

•  The picture would have to be in the article, to be used on the main page. I can't say it's a very interesting hook... Article created in March 2008, less than 500 chars, then redirected. Now approx 6k chars, even after large removal, therefore passes 5x, and date. Hook is sourced. --Worm 10:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Rainer Rene Graf Adelmann von Adelmannsfelden

• ... that German lawyer Rainer Rene Graf Adelmann von Adelmannsfelden formed the Federation of German mercenaries, operated an agency dealing with the adoption of unborn babies, formed his own church, dealt in organ donations and the trafficking of asylum seekers?

• ALT 1: ... that German lawyer Rainer Rene Graf Adelmann von Adelmannsfelden, founder of the Federation of German mercenaries, was the subject of a question in the German Parliament in regards to organ donor laws?

Created by Calistemon (talk). Self nom at 14:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Clos Saint-Jacques

• ... that the bottom section of the Burgundy Premier Cru vineyard Clos Saint-Jacques used to be planted with alfalfa instead of grapevines?

Created by Camw (talk). Self nom at 14:39, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• ALT 1 ... that the Clos Saint-Jacques vineyard was named after a local statue of Saint James, as it was a resting point on the way to Santiago de Compostela, the destination of the Way of St. James pilgrimage?

 , Date and length verified. AGF on offline hook. Looks good to go. --Worm 15:01, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

United States Ambassador to the United Nations Human Rights Council

• ... that holders of the position that would become the United States Ambassador to the United Nations Human Rights Council have included Eleanor Roosevelt and Geraldine Ferraro?

Created by Wasted Time R (talk). Self nom at 14:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• I added "of" that seemed to be missing from the hook. Camw (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

William Steward (New Zealand)

• ... that the election of William Steward (pictured) as Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives was the first one that was contested?

• Comment: expansion on 21 November 2010

5x expanded by Schwede66 (talk). Self nom at 03:54, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

• "first one that was contested" is a bit awkward. How about something like

• ALT1 ... that the election of William Steward (pictured) as Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives was the first time that this position was contested?

Nick-D (talk) 07:51, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Fine by me; thanks for your suggestion. I've adjusted the formatting of the hook with ALT1 and so on. Schwede66 08:55, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

I've struck the original hook for clarity, since the nominator is happy with ALT1. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 08:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thomas Fairfax (Walton) and Thomas Fairfax (Gilling)

• ... that Thomas Fairfax was the first Fairfax to own Gilling Castle and gave it as an inheritance to his son Thomas, the last confirmed ancestor of both Prince William and Kate Middleton?

Thomas Fairfax (Walton) created by La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk). Thomas Fairfax (Gilling) created by User:Martinvl on November 20 and 5x expanded by La comadreja _{formerly AFriedman} RESEARCH (talk). Self nom at 6:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Created by Djflem (talk). Self nom at 09:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Sentence in article w/ info now reads: When finally completed in 1897 the 450 ft (140 m) long tunnel under Pennsylvania's Waldo Avenue yards had cost $750,000, twice what had been projected.

The construction date start is in paragragh's first sentence. Hence, hook could read:

or

Created by Chesdovi (talk). Self nom at 23:42, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by SJ Morg (talk). Self nom at 10:29, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Howard the Duck (talk). Self nom at 20:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by 28bytes (talk), Theornamentalist (talk). Self nom at 16:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Rabbanituhin (talk), Cannibaloki (talk). Self nom at 01:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Chzz (talk). Self nom at 23:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Epeefleche (talk). Self nom at --Epeefleche (talk) 17:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC) (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Nvvchar (talk). Self nom at 13:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Location (talk). Self nom at 07:42, 22 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Harrias (talk). Self nom at 16:59, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Harrias (talk). Self nom at 13:03, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by PM800 (talk). Self nom at 04:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Adabow (talk). Self nom at 23:28, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Rather timely in the light of today's news! It would be nice if we could get this on the main page quickly while the story is still in the news. Expanded by Prioryman (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2010 (UTC) Reply

Created by Jalapenos do exist (talk). Self nom at 19:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Number 57 (talk). Self nom at 13:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by DynamoDegsy (talk). Nominated by Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) at 13:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Adabow (talk). Self nom at 06:10, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by 03md (talk). Self nom at 17:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Catslash (talk). Self nom at 21:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Cbl62 (talk). Self nom at 02:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Yngvadottir (talk). Self nom at 20:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Miller17CU94 (talk). Self nom at 21:10, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Easchiff (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 17:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Poyt448 (talk), Casliber (talk). Nominated by Casliber (talk) at 19:38, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by 1Matt20 (talk). Nominated by Bobamnertiopsis (talk) at 07:37, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Klangenfurt (talk). Nominated by DiverDave (talk) at 22:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Leszek Jańczuk (talk). Self nom at 23:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created/expanded by Peter I. Vardy (talk). Self nom at 20:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by 71.184.54.30 (talk). Nominated by Alpha Quadrant (talk) at 17:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Soong Wen E (talk), Wangye123 (talk) and Smuconlaw (talk). Nominated by Smuconlaw (talk) at 16:56, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Harrias (talk). Self nom at 14:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Shirt58 (talk), JIP (talk). Self nom at 12:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Bloodios (talk). Nominated by Ike-bana (talk) at 23:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Arsenikk (talk). Self nom at 12:19, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created/expanded by Cbl62 (talk). Self nom at 05:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Shimgray (talk). Self nom at 14:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Alexikoua (talk). Self nom at 22:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Casliber (talk). Self nom at 15:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Leszek Jańczuk (talk). Self nom at 15:34, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Soman (talk). Self nom at 02:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Jalapenos do exist (talk). Self nom at 23:58, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by BrownHairedGirl (talk). Self nom at 23:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by The Bushranger (talk). Self nom at 18:53, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Thelmadatter (talk). Self nom at 17:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Source Created by Maple_Leaf (talk) 13:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC). Self nom at 13:21, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Jaespinoza (talk) 10:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC). Self nom at 10:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by BlueEarth (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 08:48, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by BlueEarth (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 02:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by MichaelQSchmidt (talk), Koplimek (talk). Self nom at 08:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Resident Mario (talk). Self nom at 03:27, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Expanded by Burningview (talk). Self nom at 04:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Silver seren (talk). Self nom at 20:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Halvorsen brian (talk). Self nom at 00:55, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Stawiski (talk). Self nom at 17:46, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by BrownHairedGirl (talk). Self nom at 01:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by John Hill (talk). Self nom at 02:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Tim1965 (talk). Self nom at 01:12, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by JackofOz (talk). Self nom at 00:20, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Muhandes (talk). Self nom at 14:25, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by PM800 (talk). Self nom at 05:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by The Bushranger (talk). Self nom at 04:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Woz2 (talk). Self nom at 00:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Thanks! It's a pity text in tables doesn't count, but there you go. I guess I still have a few days to see if there's anything useful to add to prose section e.g. why did NBA think it necessary to invent a new numbering scheme? The BWV scheme seemed OK to me. What didn't they like about it? Woz2 (talk) 14:27, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by Leszek Jańczuk (talk). Self nom at 00:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Soman (talk). Self nom at 21:57, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Nvvchar (talk), Dr. Blofeld (talk). Self nom at 09:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by BlueEarth (talk). Nominated by PFHLai (talk) at 16:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

5x expanded by PM800 (talk). Self nom at 04:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

Created by Coop32 (talk). Nominated by MuZemike (talk) at 02:44, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

ALT 1 (if the above hook sounds a bit too promotional): ... that online Facebook game Car Town features pace cars used in the 2010 Indianapolis 500 and the 2010 Brickyard 400?

BabbaQ (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply