User talk:El C: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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So, I definitely have regrets, and though I try not to lament them, it is a struggle, I admit. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 17:40, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

== Operation Whitewash on Alexei Navalny's article ==

Hi El C, I was going to write to {{u|Ymblanter}} but then I read the banner (I hope everything is ok), so I thought I would contact you. I would like to give you a report of what is happening on Navalny's article (and not only), because I consider it quite particular and of a certain gravity. Since February 3, I have been forced to protect the article from the removal of the controversial content of the past of this politician (approximately 6 years of documented nationalist militancy from 2007 to 2013). I started fighting with the sockpuppet [[User:LauraWilliamson]] and [[User:Nicoljaus]], and now I'm continuing with [[User:Nicoljaus]] and [[User:My very best wishes]]. In particular [[User:My very best wishes]] removed with confidence a huge amount of data [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexei_Navalny&type=revision&diff=1006119560&oldid=1006092753] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexei_Navalny&type=revision&diff=1005728638&oldid=1005690544] (only the controversial ones, making the article a sort of LinkedIn profile, where only the positive aspects are shown), then justifying them in this way: "''the page is very big, and we should focus on facts of his biography''"[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMhorg&type=revision&diff=1006199338&oldid=1006169070]

Here I summarize all the parts of the article that are in the process of being destroyed or that have already been destroyed:

* '''Russo-Georgian war''': Navalny's suggestions on how to manage the tensions with Georgia: arming of separatists, noflyzone and shot down Georgian airforce, deportations of all Georgian citizens - using racist insults. (source [https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/07/is-aleksei-navalny-a-liberal-or-a-nationalist/278186/ The Atlantic], [https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3118991/united-states-condemns-russias-arrests-more-1800 South China Morning Post], [https://www.politico.eu/article/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-alexei-navalny/ Politico], [https://www.rollingstone.it/politica/chi-e-alexei-navalny-loppositore-di-putin-avvelenato-e-ancora-in-coma/530336/ RollingStone], [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/7/30/why-does-alexei-navalny-rattle-the-kremlin Al Jazeera]) (There is a long discussion that seems engulfed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexei_Navalny#Did_he_back_the_Russian_war_in_Georgia_or_not?])<br>

The point of view of [[User:My very best wishes]] is this one:''"He is mostly known as an anti-corruption activist, and yes, involved in Russian politics in general ("smart voting"), etc. But he never was an officially registered presidential candidate, for example. Given that, his views on various political events that had happen many years ago are unimportant"''<br> So, according to his point of view, it would be "'''Undue weight'''" to bring this whole part back.

* '''Racial slurs against georgians''': The same thing happens on the article [[Anti-Georgian sentiment]] always connected with Navalny's racist insults against Georgians. Even there, the whole part is removed from the block from [[User: My very best wishes]] for "'''Undue focus'''". [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anti-Georgian_sentiment&type=revision&diff=1005874867&oldid=1003732697] (and luckily a user intervenes to stop the operation [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAnti-Georgian_sentiment&type=revision&diff=1006239364&oldid=1006227837]).

* '''Stop Feeding the Caucasus''': "''He endorsed a nationalist-led campaign called Stop Feeding the Caucasus to end federal subsidies to the Caucasian republics.''" ([https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/12/16/the-death-of-the-russian-far-right NYTimes] [http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-navalny-nationalist-fears/25059277.html REFRL])

* '''Russian march''': "''He also has been a co-organizer of the 2006 Russian march. [...] In 2011, Navalny defended his attendance at the march, where BBC News reported that racist slogans were chanted, saying to reporters that the rally was an outlet for anger at the government.''" The source said he had only attended. But for sure he was co-organizer of the 2011 Russian march, [[User:My very best wishes]] is also a native Russian speaker, but he can't find a source that can certify it, so he prefers to remove everything. Who cares if there is also written on several RS ([https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15596400 BBC], [https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/alexei-navalny-on-his-poisoning-i-assert-that-putin-was-behind-the-crime-a-ae5923d5-20f3-4117-80bd-39a99b5b86f4 Der Spiegel], [https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2011/11/06/russian-march-resists-navalny-a10629 The Moscow Times], [https://www.svoboda.org/a/24367290.html RFE\RL])

* '''2013 Biryulyovo riots''': "''In 2013, Navalny defended [[2013 Biryulyovo riots|riots]] by nationalists in a Moscow district on his blog which was sparked after a murder was blamed on a migrant.''" ([https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/how-russian-nationalism-fuels-race-riots/ The Nation], and then I found more RS like [https://world.time.com/2013/10/14/russia-responds-to-anti-migrant-riots-by-arresting-migrants/ TIME], [https://www.dw.com/en/russian-nationalists-riot-in-moscow-over-murder-blamed-on-migrant/a-17155389 Deutsche Welle])

* '''Video for NAROD 1''': "''He starred in several videos recorded for the ''NAROD'' movement, in one of them he compares dark-skinned Caucasus militants to cockroaches and calling for arming the population to shoot them.''" ([https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/jan/15/alexei-navalny-profile-vladimir-putin The Guardian] [https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/world/europe/the-saturday-profile-blogger-aleksei-navalny-rouses-russia.html NYTimes], [https://www.ft.com/content/c3adf28c-07d0-11ea-a984-fbbacad9e7dd Financial Times])

* '''Video for NAROD 2''': "''In another video for "NAROD" he is dressed as a dentist, with an on-screen caption describing him as a “fully-trained nationalist,” and compared illegal immigrants to rotten teeth that needed to be “carefully but forcibly removed” from Russia.''" ([https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/29/alexei-navalny-on-putins-russia-all-autocratic-regimes-come-to-an-end The Guardian] [https://www.politico.eu/article/alexei-navalny-the-man-who-would-beat-vladimir-putin-russia-election/ Politico])

On the issue of the two NAROD videos we have opened a discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexei_Navalny#Wrong_narrative] that reached surreal levels. [[User:My very best wishes]] states that "'''not every sourced defamatory content about living persons belongs to WP'''". He is literally accusing some of the biggest newspapers of the world journalism of having produced defamatory content. I understand a little Russian, I went to see those original videos, the journalists did nothing but correctly report what they saw, without adding anything else.

* '''The NAROD movement''': Strangely another controversial issue which [[User:My very best wishes]] has removed, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexei_Navalny&type=revision&diff=1005728638&oldid=1005690544] and which was then partially restored, that is, the movement with which Navalny did the most controversial things, such as allying himself with the xenophobic racist organization called the [[Movement Against Illegal Immigration]] (DPNI). Here too, the magic word "'''Undue weight'''" pops up. To demonstrate how [[User:My very best wishes]] doesn't care about the question itself, he first begins: "''There is no such organization, and apparently never was. Please give me a link to website of this organization if you think it really exists or existed.''". (Here there is a long discussion about Narod movement [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexei_Navalny#Narod_movement]) When I gave him the link of the site, with all the activities of the movement from 01.11.2007 to 25.05.2009 [https://web.archive.org/web/20100214165257/http://rusnarod.info:80/], the answer his is "''I am sorry, but this is internet garbage.''".

Just to underline how [[User:My very best wishes]] doesn't care about the facts themselves, but about the protection of Navalny's reputation, he took a part of the text already inserted, where Navalny defined himself as a "democratic nationalist "and '''deliberately distorted the meaning of it''' without even reading what the source said. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexei_Navalny&type=revision&diff=1006119210&oldid=1006117432]. Since the discussion started, has started also leaving me incomprehensible (perhaps derisive) messages on my talk page, citing my first edits on Wikipedia.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMhorg&type=revision&diff=1006436994&oldid=1006335661] Or by reverting [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gulag&type=revision&diff=1006131155&oldid=1004851137] my old edits,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gulag&type=revision&diff=958740199&oldid=958191546] showing that he taken the matter a little bit too personally.

On the other user [[User:Nicoljaus]] that is backing the deletions on Navalny's article (he is not the one to implement them, I must admit this), I have some doubts about how he behave, I'm sure he is in good faith, but he seems to be defending Navalny from a political point of view, constantly talking about the Kremlin's influence on the media [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexei_Navalny#Did_he_back_the_Russian_war_in_Georgia_or_not?], with phrases like "''The Kremlin has spent a lot of money to demonize Navalny, regarding the Georgian question''" and "''Despite the Kremlin's best efforts to demonize his opponent, only a few publications follows this narrative.''", or accusing me of adding "bad things" on the article. These are answers given in the face of the my hard work of search for all the multiple western RS brought. Not fair in my opinion.

This looks to me like a whitewashing operation mainly carried out by a user, and backed by a user who supports Navalny. I may be wrong, but I have spent enough days in these discussions to understand that I am not facing interlocutors who want to find a way to report the info with neutrality. The topics that have been put into question are now numerous, I don't even know if I should open an RFC (I still don't know how to open those RFC) for each of these points listed. I'm afraid this thing will go on indefinitely and I can't handle it alone. My impression is that we are facing a clash of tons of RS against smoky "'''Undue weight'''" accusations everywhere. If I'm right, I'm asking you to help me. I invite you to check my edits, about 220 almost on Navalny's discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Mhorg&offset=&limit=220&target=Mhorg]. I've spent days turning the web upside down searching RS, and now I'm really exhausted... I really don't have the energy left to handle this alone. If instead I'm wrong, I apologize to everyone.--[[User:Mhorg|Mhorg]] ([[User talk:Mhorg|talk]]) 19:40, 13 February 2021 (UTC)