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Line 603: :::While that is certainly troubling, I do not think that I can agree with you, Nirav, that there is some definite way forward. The discussion in the past about occasions such as this has left us with no clear precedent. Taking your concerns one by one: a. the specific slurs - I presume ''kaffirs'' is what you mean - can hardly be acted upon as long as they are not used in the course of editing on WP itself. b. The specific statements about admins as being biased is again, something that can hardly be acted upon; suppose, for example, this was an IRC discussion, and you happened to be in the same channel. Would we be compelled to take action then? If so, then a lot of IRC discussion would have to be cleaned up. c. The importing of these objectives: well, it wont be the first time that a group of nationalist users collude in acting on articles of interest. This time at least the encyclopaedia is warned. :::Which brings me to my general point: we are more than justified in watching these guys very carefully now. We can drop the assumption of editing in good faith pretty soon if they have indicated their agenda fairly clearly. That is the action we can take: to ensure that their on-wiki behaviour is even more effectively and speedily policed given we now know their motives and organisations. I think that's the spirit of the ArbCom decisions, and anything further would be WP overreaching. [[User:Hornplease|Hornplease]] 16:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC) :I am in agreement with you on the second para of your comments. On the first para, I didn't necessarily mean the "kaffir" remark, because I know its too general. While such general comments do give us an indication of the nature of these gentlemen, I only mean the stuff that's directly pertinent to Wikipedia and Wikipedians - take two quotes specifically (apart from the one naming me and one suggesting the existence of a troll sleeper account) {{cquote|Nadirali: Many of the people who control the Pakistan articles are Indian extrmists and have filled it with anti-Pakistan propaganda including claiming the indus for India and linking Pakistanis to international terorism and religious violence. If anyone stands in their way,corrupt administrators(Indian in this case)will place long bans in an attempt to silence the (Pakistani in this case)users who stand in the way of their agenda. Even if you provide evidence of their gross violations it usually goes ignored due to the lack of diversity among admins. To learn about how point of view (POV) pushers (Indian in this case) control articles related to (Pakistan in this case) look here}} :I've seen a few editors blocked for simply hating WP, and Nadirali seems to fit that category. He's obviously filled with negative convictions about a general group of editors and of how WP works. Apart from other things, he thinks WP is grossly messed up as "Indian extremists" are "controlling" Pakistan articles. {{cquote|Unre4L: Guys. There is no conspiracy. There are just a bunch of Indians claiming Pakistanis history. I dont see where Jews come into this. They dont have any say in the Islam articles, unless constructive.}} :Unre4L is repeating what he has been hollering on his user page and various article talkpages, about Indians "ripping off" Pakistan's history. This is not only his view but the goal of PakHub. And the off-hand, derogatory reference to Jews not having ''"any say" in Islam articles, unless constructive''. I cannot imagine a more ridiculous statement to make - who is he or anybody else to judge the "constructiveness" of Jewish editors, and at the same time accuse Indian editors of pinning Pakistani editors down and rip Pakistan's history off. I can draw a lot of conclusions about this guy's editing purpose. :Now I read this, I know immediately that these gentlemen are not fitting the quite lax criteria of being productive Wikipedians. Nadirali's hallucinations only signal future disruptive editing. No doubt, we musn't take drastic action and the policy is not clear-cut, but its clear that the way these gentlemen think, write and edit are harbringers of future trouble. Thus, the community must in some way, send a very strong message to them about this. They can do what they please at PakHub, IRC or any other place on the internet - but this point should be made crystal-clear to them. In order to disregard these warning signs, we must know for sure that they will not import this behavior onto Wikpedia. Unfortunately, both Nadirali and Unre4L have carried their PakHub agenda onto Wikipedia. Finally, one someone's expression of frustration or desire to blow-off steam is to be respected, it must at least not include conspiracy theories and vituperation against Wikipedia editors and the way WP works. I'm just glad we could have a productive discussion on this, as it will at least let these folks know that we know and are taking this issue seriously. [[User:Rama's Arrow|<font color="orange">'''Rama's arrow (3:16)'''</font>]] 17:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC) == [[user:Siddiqui|Siddiqui]] == | |||