Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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:As thought experiments go this is a bit over the place. kg is a unit of mass not force. A force of 1kgf will produce an acceleration of 1000 m/s/s on the ball, so you are talking about a very dynamic event. The force will vary with time, and collisions or impacts are notoriously hard to analyse in the real world. However, in a perfectly elastic solution, if the peak force was 1 kgf, then there is no intrinsic difference between squishing the ball slowly, and then releasing it instantaneously, compared with bouncing the ball with the same peak force. In the real world of course there are many reasons why the subsequent rebound speed would differ, but you knew that. Another point of view, which may confuse more than it helps, suppose we took a snapshot at the point of maximum force on the wall, after the pressing force is released. It has a location, a velocity of zero, and an acceleration of -1000 m/s/s in both cases, there is no measurement that could be made that would be able to determine what the previous path of the ball had been. [[User:Greglocock|Greglocock]] ([[User talk:Greglocock|talk]]) 21:28, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

== Rescue Request ==

🆘 Please excuse me, I really need to ask this question to several Wikipedia Oracles so I have to use an automatic translator, sorry... By the way, there are links leading to texts, I think you will only need an automatic translator to understand...

[==]Request for rescue[==]

🆘 Hello dear pythias, (by the way I'm impressed with the volunteering! , anyway: ) having made a summary I put below, I don't know what to do. What should I ask/implement/recommend to the authorities or public services: one of the items in particular from the list in my final message to Bertrouf? To choose between them? And which authorities or public services should I ask? I'm not going to dial 112 / 911 ... [[Spécial:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB|discuss]]) November 20, 2021 at 03:05 (CET)

[==] disassembling the brain [==]

Hello,

I would like to have your opinion on this text, please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieuc3ABCMMA? If you agree, which authority should I contact? [[Spécial:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055|discuss]]) October 19, 2020 at 07:36 (CEST)

:Sorry, usually a question that starts with "what is your opinion" or "what do you think" is not answered on the oracle. And furthermore: {{SAV|Youtube}} We invite you to rephrase your question (at worst, there is the "Report" button below the video). [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] October 19, 2020 at 09:36 (CEST)

::And to which authority should I apply for a judgment in order, in case of a favorable opinion, to realize, please? [[Spécial:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:3995:A59E:126B:3055|discussion]]) October 19, 2020 at 1:38 PM (CEST)

:::Sorry, but I still don't understand your question. What do you want to achieve? Do you want to have the YouTube video removed? Do you want to do a medical analysis? Do you want to dissect or freeze a child (huh {{surprise}}?)? Want to appeal to a judge in court? Do you want to create an article about cryonics? In short, your question is unclear. [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] October 19, 2020 at 5:37 PM (CEST)

::::(Actually I had adapted the text of my video for children) I would like to get the process I described done, please. [[Spécial:Contributions/81.254.12.248|81.254.12.248]] ([[User talk:81.254.12.248|discuss]]) October 19, 2020 at 6:38 PM (CEST)

:::::Hello, I don't think your process is feasible in the current state of science. Moreover if it is to transfer consciousness/mind into a machine, I don't think that knowing the completeness of all the neuronal connections can reproduce a consciousness. [[User:Eystein|Eystein]] ([[User talk:Eystein|discussion]]) October 20, 2020 at 14:56 (CEST)

::::::Actually, I wanted to excite each of the neurons individually by a neuron exciter once the impulse it should make has been calculated by a computer using a simulation of the brain known from disassembly. [[Special:Contributions/81.254.12.248|81.254.12.248]] ([[User talk:81.254.12.248|discuss]]) October 21, 2020 at 2:20 PM (CEST)

:::::::Exactly: the current 'exciters' are the arrays of microelectrodes able to contact up to a thousand neurons at the same time. To measure or excite the 100 billion neurons of a brain you will have to use 100 million of these arrays and of course in three dimensions. Moreover it is likely that the state of excitation of the neurons at a certain moment has very little to do with the function of the brain, which is determined rather by the individual threshold of excitability stored in each synapse. As there are well within 10 thousand synapses on a single neuron you can see that there will not be so many authorities ready to spend all this money. But in any case you can look in [[Scientific_Research#Financing_of_Research]], the chapter on the financing of scientific research. The tendency being towards private funding, it would be advisable for you to emphasize to potential investors all the money that will be made with your invention the day it will be put on the market. [[Spécial:Contributions/2003:F5:6F03:6D00:D025:35D7:937:D52F|2003:F5:6F03:6D00:D025:35D7:937:D52F]] ([[User talk:2003:F5:6F03:6D00:D025:35D7:937:D52F|discussion]]) October 21, 2020 at 20:24 (CEST) Marco PB

::::::::In fact, since the brain is demonstrated, one can only have to use exciters in two dimensions.[[Special:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:CDE2:B43:D65D:2173|2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:CDE2:B43:D65D:2173]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:CDE2:B43:D65D:2173|discussion]]) October 21, 2020 at 22:44 (CEST)

[==]High tech, neurons [==]

Sorry for the inconvenience, I would like to know if my essay posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieuc3ABCMMA can work, please? [[Special:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:353A:F859:81D1:E460|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:353A:F859:81D1:E460]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:353A:F859:81D1:E460|talk]]) 19:08, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

:To be honest, it's not clear what you are proposing and what you are trying to achieve. Reconstructing the connections of a (human?) brain in a computer simulation in order to obtain (or inflict) consciousness, similar to the notion of [[brain in a tank]]? What does this have to do with children? Should they understand the trial? Or do the brains to be dismantled have to be children's brains? Do you know that "[[nerve cell]]" and "[[neuron]]" mean the same thing? Removing the outer membrane is an effective way to destroy it. Connections are made through [[synapses]]s; they are not like electrical connections; knowing which neurons connect to which neurons does not give enough information to simulate the activity of the network formed by the neurons.  --[[User talk:Lambiam|Lambiam]] 23:49, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

::{{u|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:353A:F859:81D1:E460}}-Why are you posting on YouTube? Can't you ask a question directly to the reference/science desk? Is it important for YouTube to serve as a conduit? [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]] ([[User talk:Bus stop|talk]]) 03:08, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

:: :

Actually, I was hoping that my essay could be read by everyone, including children. I would like to use the simulation to inject the consciousness function back into the real original set of neurons, please?[[Special:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:E450:3436:FE14:781F|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:E450:3436:FE14:781F]]. ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:E450:3436:FE14:781F|talk]]) 00:01, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I'd like to know if there is a way to extract the entire data set?

:Not with the current technology.  --[[User talk:Lambiam|Lambiam]] 11:07, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

:: And what do we do about my process? Do we tell the authorities about it? - Previous comment [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] added by [[Special:Contributions/37.166.33.181|37.166.33.181]] ([[User talk:37.166.33.181#top|talk]]) 14:03, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

:::To this same question I told you a few weeks ago on the French oracle that in order to emulate the functioning of a specific brain it is necessary not only to know which of the 100 billion neurons is connected to which other, but also to know the specific excitability threshold of each of the 10,000 or so synapses belonging to each neuron. And it is quite possible that the excitability state of the synapses is lost at death.

Even if you can measure every neuron in a frozen brain to see how they are connected, it will not help you reconstruct, restore or even emulate the consciousness of the deceased, no matter what technology you use. And as long as no authority is interested in realizing your idea.

::: But if you can first develop a concrete process and show that 1) it is feasible and 2) that it works, you will find here some suggestions concerning the financial aspect: [[Funding_of_science]]. [[Special:Contributions/2003:F5:6F0B:1E00:C990:B89E:5A87:5709|2003:F5:6F0B:1E00:C990:B89E:5A87:5709]] ([[User talk:2003:F5:6F0B:1E00:C990:B89E:5A87:5709|talk]]) 21:49, 14 November 2020 (UTC) Marco PB

[deterioration of neurons during embalming, cryonics, Sokushinbutsu, plastination, brain under BrainEx machine: pictures please? (sorry for my English) [==]

Hello, sorry to bother you,

I have an urgent need, but I don't speak English very well, can I speak in Esperanto please?

(eo) Per kon'i la teknik'o'n la mal'plej difekt'ant'a'n (vid'i on Bild'o'j), oni pov'os aplik'i unu'n de la strategi'o'j kiu'j est'as teori'it'a'j pri Cryonics? [[Special:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:B879:DC16:6186:289E|2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:B879:DC16:6186:289E]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:C45:E000:B879:DC16:6186:289E|talk]]) 00:59, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

:Estas neniu ligo al la Bild'o'j. Kial ĉi tio estas tiel urĝa? Ĉu vi ankaŭ afiŝis la demandojn "High technology, neurons" [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2020 November 3#High technology, neurons|ĉi]] tie kaj [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2020 November 12#High technology, neurons|ĉi]] tie? Via obseda serĉo kondukos nenien.  --{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{#invoke:Redirect|main|User talk:Lambiam}}|Lambiam|{{#if:Lambiam|[[User talk:Lambiam|Lambiam]]|[[User talk:Lambiam]]}}}} 09:00, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

[==] Cryonics / Embalming [==]

Hi, I hope I'm not interrupting, I would have liked to have a list of leads for cryonics that (leads) are not prevented from working for embalmed people, please? You'd be pulling a hell of a thorn out of my side...[[Special:Contributions/37.170.29.222|37.170.29.222]] ([[User talk:37.170.29.222|discuss]]) June 23, 2021 at 4:05 pm (CEST)

:Hello. No, you are not disturbing anyone, only volunteers answer here. On the other hand I am not sure I understood the question. We agree that you want to know the difference between cryonics and embalming? Cryonics freezes, embalming dries (desiccation). For the result, in both cases the cells are destroyed. Whether the future will offer technologies to revive the spirit depends on who believes in it. [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] June 24, 2021 at 10:06 am (CEST)

[==]Embalming?[==]

''(Sorry for the repost, last time I forgot something)''

Hi, I hope I'm not disturbing you, could I have your opinion on the text I posted here https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8343fi (password: a single space) please? [[Spécial:Contributions/37.172.223.200|37.172.223.200]] ([[User talk:37.172.223.200|discussion]]) August 2, 2021 at 5:17 PM (CEST)

Should we call the H.A.S. and ask them to request final embalming for people dying in France please? [[Spécial:Contributions/37.172.223.200|37.172.223.200]] ([[User talk:37.172.223.200|discuss]]) August 2, 2021 at 7:08 pm (CEST)

:Hello, I believe we tried to bring you answers in week 42 2020 [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Oracle/semaine_42_2020], but the conclusion was that your text made no sense. [[User:Eystein|Eystein]] ([[User talk:Eystein|discussion]]) August 3, 2021 at 10:39 (CEST)

::Actually, I went into more detail right after the original text. [[Spécial:Contributions/37.164.150.43|37.164.150.43]] ([[User talk:37.164.150.43|discuss]]) August 3, 2021 at 14:05 (CEST)

:::[[Wikipedia:Oracle/week_25_2021#Cryonics_/_embarrassment|That question there]], is that you too? [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] August 3, 2021 at 14:59 (CEST)

:::: I quote from the article the [[Human Brain]], "consisting of about 170 billion cells including 86 billion neurons on average that can each form 5-60,000 synapses. In order to measure the number, to count them by hand, one by one, at the speed of one neuron per second, it would take about 2700 years. This is what makes me say that your idea is unrealistic. [[User:Eystein|Eystein]] ([[User talk:Eystein|discussion]]) August 3, 2021 at 3:29 PM (CEST)

:::::Hello, I had actually hoped for a robot. And I had resigned myself to the 3,000 year duration. [[Spécial:Contributions/37.165.145.24|37.165.145.24]] ([[User talk:37.165.145.24|discuss]]) August 3, 2021 at 20:36 (CEST)

:::::P.S.: I just saw the answer to the question I forgot about on [[Wikipedia:Oracle/week_25_2021#Cryony_/_embarrassment|That question]] from "[[Wikipedia:Oracle/week_25_2021#Cryony_/_embarrassment|That question]], is that you too?" (Bertrouf). I would have to go and see an image of neurons after embalming to see their state ... By the way, among the different embalming techniques, isn't there one that doesn't destroy neurons? Like a substance eliminating putrefactive agents? What about plastination or sokushinbutsu, please? Maybe it could be performed post-mortem, possibly on the brain alone ... [[Spécial:Contributions/37.165.145.24|37.165.145.24]] ([[User talk:37.165.145.24|discuss]]) August 3, 2021 at 9:01 pm (CEST)

::::: P.S.2 Would you mind if I asked about techniques to preserve neurons without too much deterioration after death, please? Remark: I have already seen a photograph of a preserved elephant brain, it seems to me that it must have been in a jar, among other animal brains I believe preserved in a jar, and from this I draw the conclusion that they were embalmed. And it didn't look disintegrated.

[[Spécial:Contributions/37.165.145.24|37.165.145.24]] ([[User talk:37.165.145.24|discuss]]) August 4, 2021 at 02:19 (CEST)

::::::Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, I don't think there are any reliable techniques for keeping anything for these kinds of durations without damaging what you want to measure. And more generally, even if it were possible, even if you had a complete map of the synaptic connections and their electrical potential at a given time, it would not allow you to reconstruct memory, consciousness etc. [[User:Eystein|Eystein]] ([[User talk:Eystein|discussion]]) August 5, 2021 at 11:30 (CEST)

[==] embalming, cells, neurons [==]

Hello, you had told me once that embalmed neurons were deteriorated. Could you ask someone in the field to provide me with images so that I can see the extent of the damage, please? [[Spécial:Contributions/92.148.82.16|92.148.82.16]] ([[User talk:92.148.82.16|discuss]]) October 14, 2021 at 01:19 (CEST)

:I invite you to go to a funeral home or hospital with a morgue, ask to speak to a [[thanatopractor]] and see how he or she can answer your questions. He or she may have some reference books to suggest. I have no particular knowledge of medicine. [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] October 14, 2021 at 10:56 (CEST)

[==] Embalming continued [==]

Hello, excuse me for bothering you, in fact, after I typed "embalmed cells" [sic] (I made a mistake because just before I had typed "embalmed neurons"), in short, on Google, I saw in 17th position a result containing "[...]cell structure remain intact", under a heading ''Good bye, Lenin: how Russian specialists have '' at en.rbth.com: I clicked on it and then I saw, at https://fr.rbth.com/histoire/79513-corps-lenine-comment-embaumer , in the 7th post-introduction paragraph "embalm the body so that the shapes and cell structure remain intact" but just after I read that this was the Challenge -so I don't know if they really succeeded in embalming without destroying the cells- Conclusion: hopefully I have scrambled here https://www. dailymotion.com/video/x853ycf (put a space at the request of the password) [Inserting, in the discussion, an Addition for Wikipedia Oracles: select the text next to or at the bottom and drag the selection down to see all the text], I said to myself do we have to call immediately the authorities to ask them to practice a definitive embalming preserving the cellular structure on each deceased person, please? [[Spécial:Contributions/81.49.93.152|81.49.93.152]] ([[User talk:81.49.93.152|discuss]]) October 29, 2021 at 22:21 (CEST)

:But I don't know! {{/}} [[User:Bertrouf|Bertrouf]] November 8, 2021 at 11:01 (CET)

::Hello, excuse me for rearranging, I'm contacting you because I can't figure out what the urgency is right now among :

::-asking the authorities to prevent the putrefaction of the deceased by a means leaving not too much deterioration of the neurons as the Russians claimed they did for Lenin (if such a means is indeed known)

::-determine the known means of preventing putrefaction that deteriorates the neurons the least if it is sufficient among cryonics with a cryopreserver, final embalming, sokushinbutsu, plastination, (BrainEx related to the immune system)? )

::-searching for a way to prevent putrefaction leaving the neurons not too deteriorated (new cryopreservative, new embalming technique, or a technique other than those known)

::- Can you not take me for a madman please, but while I was in the anguish that neither cryonics nor embalming could not deteriorate too much the neurons, it passed through my head while I needed a plan B the idea of a dismantling of the brain carried out on a voluntary person or in coma without hope of awakening, but I have just remembered that we were not yet able to do it.

::- By the way, if we put the BrainEx on for example the whole body of a living person, I don't know what happens in case of cardiac arrest ...

::(to the line)

::By the way, I sent a letter at the beginning of October to the Ministry of Health, to the Ministry of Defense, and to the SDIS 59 and 62 in which I asked for a vision-conference to discuss all together what to do, but the Ministry of Defense and the 2 SDIS did not answer me ... [[Spécial:Contributions/92.148.81.56|92.148.81.56]] ([[User talk:92.148.81.56|discuss]]) November 18, 2021 at 02:23 (CET)

[Amendment to the last message I sent to Bertrouf: there is a new Canadian-Quebec embalming technique described here https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1068136/nouvelle-technique-uqtr-medecine-embaumement-sel ]

[[Spécial:Contributions/2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB|2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB]] ([[User talk:2A01:CB0C:38C:9F00:8886:DD15:2880:78CB|discuss]]) November 20, 2021 at 03:05 (CET)