Talk:Justin Bieber: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

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* '''A''' He only qualify as that.[[User:Sea Ane|Sea Ane]] ([[User talk:Sea Ane|talk]]) 03:16, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

* '''A''' Far and away what he's best known for, which is all the lead sentence should describe. He can be other things too but that's not necessarily first sentence material.[[User:LM2000|LM2000]] ([[User talk:LM2000|talk]]) 04:44, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

*'''A''' Per commentary above, if his songwriting isn't even significant enough to be in the body of the article, it certainly shouldn't be in the lede. [[User:BubbaJoe123456|BubbaJoe123456]] ([[User talk:BubbaJoe123456|talk]]) 16:48, 20 April 2021 (UTC)▼

*'''F :''' [https://www.google.com/search?q=justin+bieber '''Google describes Justin Bieber as a "Canadian singer-songwriter" ''' ], You can see it just below his name after a quick google search and even while you type in the words "Justin Bieber" on the Google search box. According to [https://www.google.com/search?q=singer-songwriter+definition '''the "singer-songwriter" definition from The Oxford'''], a "singer-songwriter" is "a person who sings and writes popular songs, especially professionally" which Justin Bieber has been doing for over a decade now, I don't think there are any other more reliable sources than [https://www.google.com/search?q=singer-songwriter+definition '''Oxford'''] and [https://www.google.com/search?q=justin+bieber '''Google''' ]. But if anyone feels like it's not reliable enough then here are '''some more sources mentioning Justin Bieber as a "singer-songwriter" ''' = [https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2021/04/04/justin-bieber-drops-surprise-ep-freedom-less-than-two-weeks-after-his-latest-album Forbes ], [https://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/guests/justin-bieber/a04c9387b42c1ceb9103067e8c38fd29cb067aa2 NBC ], [https://variety.com/2020/music/reviews/justin-bieber-changes-album-review-1203504088/ Variety ], [https://nationaltoday.com/justin-biebers-birthday/ National Today ], [https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/you-wont-believe-justin-biebers-hidden-hawaiian-holiday-home/ss-BB1fwONh Microsoft News ], [https://www.newsbreak.com/channels/p-justin-bieber News Break ], [https://www.pmstudio.com/music/music.html?page=20210318-13357 PM Studio ], [https://www.hellomagazine.com/tags/justin-bieber/ Hello Magazine ], [https://www.newindianexpress.com/entertainment/english/2021/mar/12/justin-bieber-reveals-tracklist-for-upcoming-album-justice-2275739.html New Indian Express ], [https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-justin-bieber-covers-all-his-tattoos-for-anyone-video-144992 Zee Business ], [https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/all-about/justin-bieber Daily Record ], [https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/singers/justin-bieber-net-worth/ Celebrity Networth ], [https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/justin-bieber-opens-up-about-relying-on-heavy-drugs-at-19-and-struggling-with-early-fame-on-instagram-7277271.html First Post ], [https://www.today.com/popculture/justin-bieber-goes-tattoo-free-new-anyone-music-video-t204906 Today ], [https://www.wionews.com/entertainment/justin-bieber-terms-first-year-of-marriage-to-hailey-baldwin-as-really-tough-377679 WION News ], [https://www.freepressjournal.in/entertainment/hollywood/you-dont-want-to-scare-them-off-justin-bieber-terms-first-year-of-marriage-to-hailey-baldwin-as-really-tough The Free Press Journal ], [https://tv.apple.com/us/person/justin-bieber/umc.cpc.398by4vta7sk3ftk57yox8y3x Apple TV ], [https://www.vulture.com/2020/01/justin-bieber-yummy-song-review.html Vulture ], [https://www.crunchbase.com/person/justin-bieber Crunch Base ], [https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-singer-songwriter-justin-bieber-and-musician-dan-kanter-perform-on-92224457.html Alamy ], [https://www.reportdoor.com/justin-bieber-gives-a-shoutout-to-the-working-mothers-read-what-the-canadian-singer-songwriter-has-to-say/ Report Door ], [https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2021/03/30/justin-bieber-invades-the-hot-100-with-songs-from-his-new-album-justice/ Forbes ], [https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/entertainment/1516499-justin-bieber-hailey-baldwin-get-matching-tattoos-in-honour-of-peaches-song Devdiscourse ], [https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/806690-justin-bieber-touches-on-hailey-baldwins-love-in-new-deserve-you-track The News International ], [https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2020/12/21/justin-bieber-teams-up-with-former-rivals-for-christmas-song.html The Jakarta Post ], [https://kelvinokaforart.com/justin-bieber/ Kelvin Okafor Art ], [https://paycheck.in/salary/salarycheckers/music-singers-male/justin-bieber Pay Check ], [https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/details-photo/singer-songwriter-justin-bieber-and-musician-dan-kanter-perform-on-nbc-s-today-citi-concert-series-at-the-nbc-s-today-show-on-november-18-2015-in-new-york/WEN-wenn23177649 Agefotostock ], [https://celebrity.nine.com.au/justin-bieber Nine / Honey ], [https://www.albumoftheyear.org/artist/2438-justin-bieber/ Album Of The Year ], [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/30-minute-special-documentary-on-justin-bieber-in-works-to-be-released-on-october-30/articleshow/78867424.cms The Economic Times ], [https://shortyawards.com/6th/justinbieber Shorty Awards ], [https://worldhistoryproject.org/topics/justin-bieber World History Project ], [https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/justin-bieber-3938.php The Famous People ], [https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/justin-bieber-villa-lanzarote Lonely Planet ], [https://www.aninews.in/news/entertainment/hollywood/justin-bieber-hailey-baldwin-get-matching-tattoos-in-honour-of-peaches-song20210331085240/ ANI News ], [https://www.zee5.com/zee5news/justin-bieber-says-having-predictability-and-reliability-since-marriage-has-been-monumental Zee 5 ], [https://newsroompost.com/entertainment/really-tough-justin-bieber-opens-up-about-marriage-with-hailey-baldwin/596973.html News Room Post ]. Furthermore, '''Sources claiming Justin Bieber as both the "singer-songwriter and multi-instrumentalist" ''' = [https://www.nowmusic.com/artists/justin-bieber Now Music ], [https://english.tupaki.com/movienews/article/Justin-Bieber-opens-up-about-his-transition--says-Bodyguards-used-to-check-his-pulse/115865 Tupaki ], [https://theindependent.sg/hailey-bieber-gets-matching-tattoo-with-justin-bieber/ The Independent ], [https://nationaltoday.com/justin-biebers-birthday/ National Today ], [https://theindependent.sg/justin-biebers-mother-reacts-to-his-new-tattoo/ Independent SG ], [https://www.musicfestivalwizard.com/artist/justin-bieber/ Music Festival Wizard ]. '''More sources claiming Justin Bieber as the "multi-instrumentalist" ''' = [https://in.style.yahoo.com/justin-bieber-still-insists-tom-105636236.html Yahoo ], [https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCGvj8kfUV5Q6lzECIrGY19g YouTube Music ], [https://music.apple.com/gb/album/my-worlds/1440490460 Apple Music ], [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/brains-bieber-conversation-scooter-braun-48088 Hollywood Reporter ], [https://www.tubefilter.com/2012/12/09/justin-bieber-kidrauhl-youtube-first-video/ Tube Filter ], [https://www.news18.com/topics/justin-bieber/ News 18 ], [https://www.combster.tv/t/172930-justin-bieber?utm_source=spectroom_web&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=cross_promo Combster ], [https://www.vividseats.com/concerts/justin-bieber-new-york-tickets.html Vivid Seats ], [https://kids.kiddle.co/Justin_Bieber Kiddle ], [https://thenationonlineng.net/justin-bieber-features-burna-boy-in-latest-single/ The Nation Online ], [http://wwwq.tunegenie.com/music/justin-bieber/ Tune Genie ], [https://jayuzumi.com/justin-bieber-soundboard Jayuzumi ], [https://www.iwmbuzz.com/music/celebrities-music/zayn-malik-vs-justin-bieber-hollywood-singer-according-talented/2021/04/12 IWM Buzz ], [https://www.zoomtventertainment.com/hollywood/article/justin-bieber-pictures-the-hit-pop-icons-romantic-moments-with-wife-hailey-are-too-cute-to-be-missed/726502 Zoom Entertainment ], [https://tsacademy.jp/virgin-hyperloop-fte/justin-bieber-religion-wiki-b8ce08 Tokyo Shakaijin ], [https://newswwc.com/world/singapore/justin-biebers-mother-reacts-to-his-new-tattoo/ News World Wide Coverage ], [https://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/2009/08/justin_bieber_15_performs_one.html MLive News ], [http://www.owlapps.net/owlapps_apps/articles?id=30089709&lang=en Owlapps ], [https://entertainment.ie/music/justin-bieber-my-world-20-176402/ Entertainment.ie ] Justin Bieber was given the title of "multi-instrumentalist" at a very young age, considering [https://entertainment.ie/music/justin-bieber-my-world-20-176402/ he was a self-taught instrumentalist ] playing the Piano, Guitar, Drums, Bongo, Trumpet, djembe, Congas [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28VmUxTDU5Q while singing on the sidewalk to earn some money for his family, ] [https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/268791/usher-introduces-teen-singer-justin-bieber playing full drums since he was two years old. ] We can find new news sources and we can still find the old news sources giving him the title "multi-instrumentalist" dating as back as 2009 ([https://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/2009/08/justin_bieber_15_performs_one.html 2009 AD - Source 1 ] and [https://entertainment.ie/music/justin-bieber-my-world-20-176402/ 11 Years Ago - Source 2 )]. [http://www.mtv.com/news/2160170/justin-bieber-multi-talented-musician/ Here is an MTV News source talking about it in elaborate with multiple video clips of him playing the Piano, Guitar, Congo, Drums and other instruments. ] ''' Here are some Video Clips of him playing different instruments from a tiny little kid to an adult :''' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjIpqEH9Wr0 Video of Bieber playing the Drums as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4miZaIqc7Q Video of Bieber playing Keyboard as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tJFDFXw_Is Video of Bieber Playing Guitar Riffs, Drums and Beatboxing as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XC1jNo2g8s Video of Bieber playing the Guitar and Singing as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvkoalkTpA Video of Bieber playing djembe as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjHPaLNdwNs Video of Bieber playing the Guitar and Singing as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSA1Gytz-Os Video of Bieber playing the Drums as a Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9PqvVF3Phs Compilation Video of Bieber playing different instruments as a Tiny Kid ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao3EPl4yGps Video of Bieber playing Drum Solo in 2015 ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIb2B6nabLo Video of Bieber playing the Bongo ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hV-Xldnya4&t=4003s Video of Bieber playing the Drums in Purpose Tour Concert ], [https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLDV_UHtfT/ Video of Bieber creating new music using Keyboard ], [https://www.instagram.com/p/B9W7X6cnbMo/ Video of Bieber playing Piano while Singing in 2020 ], [https://www.instagram.com/p/CKhIA4BHh61/ Video of Bieber playing Drums in 2021 ], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su6kidaGW_8&t=194s Video of Bieber playing Keyboard while Singing in 2021 ] '''If Justin Bieber is doing this as a profession for over a decade now and is also backed up by hundreds of sources then I don't see any reason not to include it. Also, Bieber being a multi-instrumentalist was one of the main reasons behind his discovery on Youtube and selection by his Manager, which resulted in what he is now, which I think is a very big part of his profession and his life and should not be excluded out.''' And if we were to go along with some of the comments made in this "RfC" then we would have to change every single Artist's article page accordingly and make a new consensus for every artist's page consistently because we can see other artists such as [[Meghan Trainor]], [[Harry Styles]], [[Katy Perry]], [[Taylor Swift]], [[Ed Sheeran]], [[Eminem]] and all of the other artists have other talents mentioned in their first sentence aside their main profession and aside what they are popularly known for. So, if one artist is able to have their talents included in their lead section then so be it on all of the artist's articles consistently. But if not then let's change all of the other Artist's articles as well accordingly with consistency. '''---'''[[User:AWikiGenius| '''A Wiki Genius''' ]][[User talk:AWikiGenius| ❤ ]] 06:39, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

*'''Comment :''' Why is the RfC quoted as "vote" with "an '''optional''' brief comment"? '''It completely goes against these Consensus and RfC Policies :''' '''1.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#By_soliciting_outside_opinions '''The Wikipedia policy on consensus clearly states that {{tq|"Consensus is determined by the quality of arguments (not by a simple counted majority), polls should be regarded as structured discussions rather than voting."}} '''] '''2.''' [[WP:TALKDONTREVERT | '''Furthermore, the consensus policy also clearly states that''' '''{{tq|"In determining consensus, consider the quality of the arguments}} ''', {{tq|the history of how they came about, the objections of those who disagree, and existing policies and guidelines.}} '''{{tq|The quality of an argument is more important than whether it represents a minority or a majority view. The arguments "I just don't like it" and "I just like it" usually carry no weight whatsoever.}}''' {{tq|Limit article talk page discussions to discussion of '''sources, article focus, and policy."}} ''']] '''3.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Rough_consensus#Rough_consensus_closing ''' {{tq|"Consensus is not determined by counting heads, but by looking at strength of argument}}'''{{tq|, and underlying policy (if any). Arguments that contradict policy, are based on opinion rather than fact, or are logically fallacious, are frequently discounted. For instance, if someone finds the entire page to be a copyright violation, a page is always deleted. If an argument for deletion is that the page lacks sources, but an editor adds the missing references, said argument is no longer relevant.''' " '''}}] '''4.''' [[WP:VOTE | {{tq|'''"'''Decisions on Wikipedia are made on the basis of consensus,}} '''{{tq|not on vote-counting or majority rule. In summary, polling is not a substitute for discussion."}} ''']] '''5.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_democracy ''' {{tq|"Wikipedia is not a democracy.}}''' {{tq|Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy or any other political system. Its primary means of decision making and conflict resolution is editing and discussion leading to consensus—'''not voting."}} '''] '''6.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Through_discussion ''' {{tq|"Consensus is achieved using reasons based in policy, sources}}'''{{tq|, and common sense.''' " '''}}] '''7.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Determining_consensus ''' {{tq|"Consensus is ascertained by the quality of the arguments}}''' {{tq|given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy.''' " '''}}] '''8.''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment '''The RfC Policy clearly states that {{tq|"RfCs are a way to attract more attention to a discussion"}}] it's not a voting system''' contrary to what the RfC starter User:MaranoFan seems to be doing here. I suggest User:MaranoFan be familiar with the Consensus and RfC Policies and also further '''analyse the Full-form of RfC = "Requests for comment".''' Comment and discussion are not ''' "optional" ''' according to the Wikipedia Consensus and RfC Policies but instead, the discussion is the sole reason for the Consensus and RfC, as contrary to what this particular RfC is trying to achieve here. '''---'''[[User:AWikiGenius| '''A Wiki Genius''' ]][[User talk:AWikiGenius| ❤ ]] 06:39, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

▲*'''A''' Per commentary above, if his songwriting isn't even significant enough to be in the body of the article, it certainly shouldn't be in the lede. [[User:BubbaJoe123456|BubbaJoe123456]] ([[User talk:BubbaJoe123456|talk]]) 16:48, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

===Extended comments===