Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big D Kuwait - Wikipedia


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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wikipedia is not a place for promoting yourself, even if doing so is otherwise difficult in your country.  Sandstein  04:36, 5 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trust me if I wanted to promote myself it wouldn't be in Wikipedia, so stop repeating that excuse of my deletion, I did not make the article for any sort of promotion, I made the article so people can find information and read my story when they google my name, I had reliable sources, and everybody in Kuwait and all my fans across the globe know I do not need Wikipedia to promote myself, I could use a famous music website such as www.worldstarhiphop.com for self-promotion, I actually discourage promotional artists according to my article, Note that I wanted to have a Wikipedia article because I know I deserve one. Thank you for your time.  Big D  (talk • contribs) 5:38, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Big D Kuwait (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)
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The subject does not meet WP:NMUSIC at this time. The sources used in the article at present are either primary sources or are not published in 'reliable' sources. Searches in google books, news and factiva don't bring up any suitable references. As the article states the subject is still "underground" which is good sign that we should not have an article about him at the moment. SmartSE (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr. Smart SE,

I had someone work so hard to make this page for me it took time. i thought i was deemed worthy of being looked up in an encyclopedia. i have been working hard writing everyone that tries to delete me to explain my case. i am not mainstream, and i plan on staying underground. i'm not using this as a way to help my career, im using this for proof; and a reliable source for me to be looked up in by Kuwait. im not in it for money or fame. that's how my small country recognizes me in public, but i needed an article of proof. even if it was a small paragraph. unfortunately at the moment i don't have the reliable source that you ask for. but i earned my fame mostly because i stayed underground. so i can have freedom of speech in cases such as this my Islamic country forbids profanity or even having a music career (if you want to know more about why my religion is against making money off of music i will explain more if you ask me). therefore i cant be true to myself if i was a signed artist because the media will never let me say what i want. they like my music because i am the only Kuwaiti that went this far on my own personal budget.

Im the only unsigned Kuwaiti artist that went this far. where as there is a signed group by the name of Army Of One, Kuwaiti rappers. but Kuwait media decides how there music should be and they can't rap with profanity, freedom, and self will. the songs they make are just for commercial purposes it's not what they truly want to release. i know this because they are my friends. but in my case i have the advantage of being underground and producing my own music. so i can talk about politics, religion, and middle eastern issues, and what the middle east really wants to hear.

Please look at this a article, it is about the band "Army of One" on a Kuwaiti news website "Army of one - Arab Times" what if I could get a article similar to the one I just posted. will that be enough reliable source? my question to you Mr. SmrtSE would I be accepted then. i hope my situation is more clear. thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 13:51, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr Bbb23,

Please type "Big D Kuwait" in google search engine you will see my name everywhere sir, all the way to the 30th page, that can be somewhat of coverage used and I spoke to a reporter on Arab_Times by next week I will have a article on their official website hopefully, rules are rules and I respect your regulations sir, but just google search the word "Kuwaiti Rapper" and you will see my name on the first results that is good source for the time being, I await your positive response.

As you've been told repeatedly, what matters is secondary reliable sources commenting on your accomplishments. Without that, you can't have an article here. What happens in the future can only be evaluated after it has happened. Articles aren't based on future notability.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I won't "vote" since I'm involved (as a fan of Big D's efforts) but I am afraid that at this time there is no notability per our standards. A record contract with a notable label, some decent distribution, and coverage in accepted music publications would help. Perhaps, Big-D, you can start a feud--that seems to work for many US artists... Drmies (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear All, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 16:25, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So for you to consider someone as notable enough to be in an encyclopedia you have to be able to Google the artist to see his or her information and the information has to come from a big company, newspaper, record label, so on and so forth.....let me just say on my behalf I am in a strict Muslim country which does not allow Muslims to make money off of music it is actually against the Holy Koran the 1....I REPEAT THE ONE AND ONLY R&B/HIP HOP ARTIST GROUP TO EVER GET SIGNED IN KUWAIT, is like a Justin Beiber/98 degrees boy band combined. THERE WILL NEVER BE A RAP ARTIST COMING OUT OF KUWAIT, not with saying what i say in my songs. my genre is more gangsta rap with hardcore lyrics and beats. its just never going to happen for me unless i turn into something that they want me to be. its not just about my profanity, its also about the subjects i choose to write about....i have made a lot of songs that are light hearted in my younger days...but i'm getting older and have matured. i am now choosing to write about issues that are hard for youth to get interested in just by reading on the news.

i'm not trying to waste everyone's time here. my point i'm trying to argue here is this....for me to be true to myself, i will never get signed...especially in Kuwait. i'm fighting a sea of critics that hate me just because i'm a rapper. i would say any person in this country that is a kuwaity hates my music...just because they think i am a bad person for doing what i do. they think i'm a bad guy because i'm going against my religion technically. but i don't do drugs, i don't drink alcohol, i pray, and read the Holy Koran, i love my family and my wife, i work and come home and write music.

for me to be on MTV Middle East with live broadcasting would be pointless since my whole purpose is to be underground. I respect every-bodies point of view; everybody here is trying to go by the rule book. I respect Mr. Drmies for his support, and SmartSE; BB; all the wiki admins. but take a look at these U.A.E rap group Desert_Heat_(hip_hop) they been on Wikipedia for so long and have warning never been deleted.

I'm not on many reliable sources because of my belief in true Hip-Hop I rather have no fame and quit rapping then be something that I'm not just to get accepted on Wikipedia. I have faith you will let my page stay, because I deserve it. Thank you for hearing all of my story. I will fight for my right to be categorized in Wikipedia as a rap artist from Kuwait. Because i doubt there will ever be a rap artist from Kuwait again that will come close to me as far as deserving a Wikipedia page. Big D Kuwait (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for pointing me to that article. Their notability is very iffy, but I was able to find and add one mention of them--they could possibly be nominated for deletion. As for Kuwaiti rappers, what about Disso R Die and ThuGz Team?[1] Drmies (talk) 17:00, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Haha Mr Drmies (Diss or Die and ThuGz Team) are some kids on the street in kuwait, wannabe rappers, that diss each other all day long, they only freestyle swearing at one another, they can't even spell the word Wikipedia sir! and they only rap in arabic they are definitely not acceptable for Wikipedia, If I may seem not good enough to pass the music notability standards, Then they will definitely seem a lot more illegitimate, and I was speaking in terms of general hardcore english arabic hip-hop, furthermore I'm the only unsigned Kuwaiti rapper with official music videos in Kuwait nobody has any music videos here other then me and "Army of one - Arab Times" because they have a record deal. Big D Kuwait (talk) 17:11, 19 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) [reply]

  • P.S I have the proof as a Arab and a rapper I know the history of Hip-Hop in the middle east, Believe it or not LOOK UP Arabic hip hop the biggest phrase on Wikipedia for Arab rappers in the chart they have the rappers from Algeria, Egypt, Jordan,

Lebanon, Morocco, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Yemen. All the countries in the gulf are there EXCEPT KUWAIT. not because we do not have rappers here, we do, but they are iffy,I kept hip hop alive in my small country, and I was the one of the first people to start hip hop in Kuwait. Please look at Arabic hip hop Big D Kuwait (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) [reply]

  1. ^ Wright, Robin (2011). Rock the Casbah: Rage and Rebellion Across the Islamic World. Simon and Schuster. p. 121. ISBN 9781439103166. Retrieved 19 April 2012.
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr. Beyond My Ken,

In my opinion, The fact that i'm not a signed artist yet, and that I haven't been on TV, is the main reason why everybody is thinking Big D is a promotional figure but I don't intend to use Wikipedia for self-promotion or none of those purposes, and I figured that the main reason that i'm not indicating significance to most of Wikipedia's admins is simply because I do not have a record label yet, But It doesn't necessarily mean I'm completely illegitimate, I should pass the notability threshold at this time whereas Wikipedia does not have 1 Kuwaiti rapper listed in their encyclopedia articles, Unless a miracle comes along and a Kuwaiti rapper gets signed out of nowhere, and if any Kuwaiti Rapper will get signed they would of picked me. I'm a 100% sure I will be the only Kuwaiti Rapper you will meet that fought his case this much to be on Wikipedia, Isn't it a sad case as for me being a known ("Arabic-English" Rapper) in Kuwait I go on Wikipedia search the phrase Arabic hip hop and I see no one to representing Kuwait? use me as notability i clearly deserve it, and if you give me a few days I'm working on getting reliable sources if you just give me a chance, I've done so much on Wikipedia in such a little amount of time in the past few days, I did not even know nothing about the rules here before all of this happened, I wish you let my article remain on Wikipedia, I'm trying my best to prove im worthy of having a chance to be on Wikipedia, if you just read my story you will understand clearly why I deserve to be here. Thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 05:47, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ‑Scottywong| chat _ 22:54, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply to above: Big D, the problem is that we do have certain rules about what can be included. Music artists have to meet a criteria called WP:NBAND for there to be an article about them, which you don't quite meet yet, because of not having signed with a label. I don't doubt that you would be the first Kuwaiti rapper to be signed if any are, but keeping on those grounds would be a violation of a rule called WP:CRYSTALBALL - we're not supposed to try to predict the future. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 18:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Admins, I did not ask to wait a decade or years into the future, I'm working on getting a reliable source that will pass the music notability requirements and hopefully I will update this form with the links in a couple more days. Thank you for your patience.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 10:16 AM, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Dear All Admins, With all due respect Mr. Duffbeerforme It is not a self promotion your quick to say delete and you did not even read the article, I had a friend write the article about me and he wrote very clearly in my article " Big D has not promoted himself as much as other rappers, and does not wish to use his rap skills in order to gain fame, he is a strong believer of the phrase rap is a Talent, "Not a fame tool" he also quoted me saying "Rappers use Hip Hop for promotional benefits, Hip Hop is not all about the "Fame".

Furthermore! AND MOST IMPORTANT, "I gathered the reliable sources that I promised to post! I was interviewed by Arab Times The leading English newspaper in the middle east, according to their official External links "The Arab Times on line website" which is noted through Wikipedia, my article was posted May 02, 2012 “Big D - Kuwaiti rapper promotes positive message (Article – Via Arab Times)", If you want it in PDF format, “Click Here", So I guess I pass the music notability guideline because that is official reference, and if that is not enough then , I also have another reference which is www.kuwait-music.com which the website owner was interviewed by BBC and his website was nominated the leading website of music in Kuwait VIA ARAB TIMES I’m honored to say they featured me in their website too “Click here to view my User profile on Kuwait-Music.com”, These are legitimate sources that pass your music notability guidelines including the other previous references I had in the past, Hopefully now I’m worthy enough to be on Wikipedia and I hope you admins accept me. Thank you for your time,

Sincerely, Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 10:31, ‎May ‎02, ‎2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwait (talk • contribs)

  • Sorry, D--but it seems that the Arab Times article is all there is, and without albums on notable labels that's just not enough. (Kuwait Music does not appear to be a very notable site.) Closing admin: will you please userfy this? We can bring it back easily if notability by our guidelines is met. All the best, Big D. You know I'll be the first to buy the album--well, the first in my city, that is. Drmies (talk) 04:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Drmies, yo brother first things first "Kuwait-Music.com is legit according to BBC click here "BBC News- Musicians in Kuwait struggle with censorship, Kuwait Music" and watch the video. Also according to ARAB TIMES newspaper article, "Kuwait-Music.Com Helps Bridge Cultures - Via Arab Times"

  1. Many wikepedia artists do not have notable record labels.
  2. I'm a independent artist signing a record label means i would sell my soul to the devil.
  3. Kuwait has censorship laws "as a islamic country muslims cannot use profanity"
  4. Name me 1 rapper in the world that would agree to have censored lyrics.
  5. we do not have any notable labels in Kuwait we only have small recording studios.
  6. thank you for the nice complements about purchasing the album, like i said before if your ever in Kuwait contact me.

P.S My songs and albums you can find them on my website "The Official Website for Big D " and youtube alongside with my Music Videos, and as for Kuwait-Music they are a very notable source according to BBC and ARAB TIMES "Feature Video "BBC features Kuwait Music and Avant-Garde projects" I guess after seeing the censorship video you trust me for speaking the truth about the laws here in Kuwait, many artists contact Caesar Fernandes the founder of kuwait-music.com to be heard and that's where most musicians are found, we get the chance to be heard through his website that connects listeners in Kuwait to western musicians in Kuwait like me and others without censorship. So please try to reconsider there is no more to offer in my small country but what I've given, It would make many people proud and give them hope! I hope I get nominated to stay, because I really explained my case very clearly and I did the most I can to prove you wont make a wrong decision by accepting me. Regards, Big D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 02:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.