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Health
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Politics and elections
Discovery of largest Iron Age Earthwork in Britain
ϢereSpielChequers 23:37, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nobel Prize (Medicine)
Nominator's comments: Needs some work but otherwise Nobel Prizes are ITNR. Tone 09:59, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
October 2
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2016 NRL Grand Final
Nominator's comments: This WP:ITN/R is up to date. The match summary could be expanded but is otherwise good to go. Jarumain (talk) 12:10, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support Overall the article is not in bad shape and just needs some minor fixes. I've added a few CN tags and the tables aren't clear where their data is coming from. Fix those and we should be good to go. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:23, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Jarumain (talk) 21:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hungarian Migrant Quota Referendum, 2016
Nominator's comments: Significant news from Hungary showing very strong opposition to EU quotas requiring member states to accept certain numbers of migrant refugees. Although it is likely to be declared invalid due to low turnout the over 90% oppose vote is certain to add fuel to the debate over Europe's immigration crisis. The article has been updated, looks well written and decently sourced. Ad Orientem (talk) 04:27, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Right-wing nationalism on the march. Whether enforceable or not, the article is solid (at a quick glance, at least) and this is noteworthy in the migrant crisis. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:37, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose I cannot see why we would post a referendum that is invalid because of low turnout and therefore is not going to have any effect. Neljack (talk) 05:35, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Normally I would agree. But when you have upwards of 90% of the vote going against the EU quotas, legal validity is pretty much irrelevant. The referendum is sending shock waves through the EU. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:40, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Not really; it was predictable the vote would go this way. The majority of Hungarians are anti-immigration, and remember the vote was not "should Hungary accept a certain quota of immigrants?" but effectively "Should the EU be able to force Hungary to accept a certain quota of immigrants". Given that, the only surprising thing is that the turnout was so low. Black Kite (talk) 09:27, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support covered in multiple major new services (UK, Australia, Qatar, UK again, Europe, USA, etc.) - Yellow Dingo (talk) 07:19, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose The turnout was below 50% and according to Hungarian law this is insufficient to make the results valid. Brandmeistertalk 07:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose on impact. The plebiscite failed on turnout, and so nothing will change. And the thing sending shockwaves through Europe is the migrant crisis itself, not a failed plebiscite.128.214.53.104 (talk) 07:35, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: Unfortunately, my English grammar is quite poor, so I guess the article requires a susbtantial copyedit. In this light, I'd rather not support the candidacy. --Norden1990 (talk) 07:39, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per the reasons above. For a start, yes, the turnout is too low for it to be valid. Also, this was more an opinion poll than an actual plebiscite, the question was loaded very much with emotive language. Hungary will not be able to legitimately deal with the EU's rules while it remains an EU member - in the mother of all ironies, it remains very much in favour of the EU for the benefit of its own migrants in Britain Valentina Cardoso (talk) 11:18, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The blurb is misleading, the boycotting side won. Narayanese (talk) 17:34, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I agree that the blurb is terribly misleading. Those who opposed the ruling party in this question were encouraged to boycott the referendum (which was widely considered illegitimate and pointless; the Constitution of Hungary itself states that "No national referendum may be held on ... any obligation arising from an international agreement" [1]) I would love to see the referendum mentioned on the main page, because it shows that the majority of people definitely refused to be part of Orbán's hate campaign, but the blurb should reflect this, and not the opposite. Thank you. HungaryNews (talk) 18:16, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Voters reject FARC peace deal
Nominator's comments: The landmark peace deal lies in tatters, it probably won't be possible to revive it. Count Iblis (talk) 22:43, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support A huge and unexpected setback. EternalNomad (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait Yes, this is big news and almost certainly ITN worthy. However, it is quite literally breaking. We have very little information and no idea of what this means. Also the articles have not been updated (as of my writing this). They will need to have this put in along with some RS sourced analysis. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:56, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait I think the article needs to have enough of "what happens now" (do they go back to renegotiate? do they try to pass without a vote, etc?) to know the implications of this. --MASEM (t) 23:58, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The uncertainty of what comes next is a big part of this news story, no need to wait for some resolution. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:23, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The unexpected result of the extremely close poll and the immediate aftermath shows that this is worthy for ITN. —SomeoneNamedDerek (talk) 00:40, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The only one of the various articles proposed for possible linking that is in reasonably good condition is Colombian peace agreement referendum, 2016. The others have serious deficiencies, especially in referencing. The one on the peace accord also has an orange tag. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support What a disaster. Neljack (talk) 05:37, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose This will have no effect on the agreement which will stay in force. Brandmeistertalk 07:30, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- But it will expire; this deal would have been permanent. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Uusally its just a referendum but this was a major surprise with massive ramification akin to Brexit. I imagine its more in the news in the Spanish language media. Anyways support ALT as it links to the details..Lihaas (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- As does Alt2. Sca (talk) 16:27, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Nah, its too wordy.
- Needs more prose reactions: FARC, Santos, Cuba, (Venezuela?), and troublemaker uribe. Also more analysis on the fact that the troubled areas approved it while the central areas less affected rejected it (was on bbxC tv).Lihaas (talk) 22:46, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
2016 Ryder Cup
The Rambling Man (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Weak Support There are two relatively short sections near the top that need a reference and some of the tables are not very clear on where their data is coming from. And honestly, though I tagged it, I'm not sweating the TV coverage as that is not a claim likely to be controversial. Otherwise it looks good and reasonably well sourced. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:54, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
2016 Ethiopian protests
The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Oppose This sounds like something we should have on ITN. Unfortunately there are currently only three sentences on the subject in the linked article. Those three sentences are not only short on details, but seem unsure of the ones they are providing. It's not clear exactly when this happened. Rocks were thrown, or they weren't. Fifty-two were killed, or three hundred. And there is only one source cited. While the BBC is indisputably an RS source, I'd like to have more than one news source if we are posting something to "In the News." It doesn't need its own article but if we could expand this beyond three sentences and add another reliable news source (or two) I think we could post this. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Just Google News it, I've added The Guardian and Reuters to the template. The Rambling Man (talk) 04:48, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] RD: Neville Marriner
Dionysodorus (talk) 17:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
October 1
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October 1, 2016 (Saturday)
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[Ready] RD: Daphne Odjig
Nominator's comments: First Nations artist from Canada. Article has been expanded and referenced. MurielMary (talk) 06:02, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Greencauldron (talk) 20:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a rather regional event, and therefore not usually of global interest. The phrase "first time since 1977" is making me curious, though. Is this event significant? ~Mable (chat) 20:47, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article doesn't even note what sport its talking about. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "retain" in the blurb is unclear. Do you mean that Dublin had the cup, and kept it as a result of the finals match, and that this is the first time that's happened since 1977 - so presumably they have had the cup before but always lost it/not been able to keep it for a consecutive period? Or do you mean that Dublin won the cup for the first time? MurielMary (talk) 08:33, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support looks reasonable enough to me. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:58, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Looks sufficient for an ITNR event to me. I appreciate we're going to have three sports events at the top soon (the below, and the Ryder Cup) but that's what happens occasionally. Black Kite (talk) 17:41, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] 2016 AFL Grand Final
Nominator's comments: multiple updaters Yellow Dingo (talk) 10:03, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Inclined to support given that this is the club's first premiership win for 62 years and only its second ever, as well as being the first time any team has won from seventh position on the ladder. Gatoclass (talk) 10:58, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Although I note that the match itself isn't covered in the article, and I think that would have to be rectified before this could be posted. Gatoclass (talk) 11:05, 1 October 2016 (UTC) I now support this nomination as a match summary has been added. Gatoclass (talk) 08:34, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support as ITN/R. The article isn't perfect, but the quality is certainly adequate enough for ITN standards (long enough, referencing is fine, no other tags). It makes sense to mention the Bulldogs' premiership drought in the blurb, and I've added ALT1 accordingly. (Note: "defeat" rather than "beat" is standard for blurbs, and I've used "title" rather than "premiership" as the latter is an Australianism that might not be understood by all). IgnorantArmies (talk) 11:17, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I've taken the year out of each blurb, but please, let's try to avoid the usual ENGVAR debate here by selecting a blurb that is English-variant-agnostic. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:33, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless I'm missing something, I don't see any prose relating to the actual game itself. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:36, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support Overall article quality is not bad though it needs a little expansion per TRM's observation above. Referencing actually looks pretty respectable which is a pleasant change from the norm around here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:23, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ad Orientem and The Rambling Man: Match summary added by Fuebaey. - Yellow Dingo (talk) 01:05, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support ITN recurring item, which now has paragraphs of prose describing the actual game. Gfcvoice (talk) 08:15, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support now suitable prose update has been included. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:44, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Posted. Rephrased to avoid the ENGVAR problem (i.e. whether a team is singular or plural). Dragons flight (talk) 21:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- When plural team nicknames (such as "Bulldogs" and "Swans") are used, that isn't an issue. —David Levy 01:29, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
September 30
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September 30, 2016 (Friday)
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Law and crime
Science and technology
Sports
[Posted] RD: Brahim Zniber
Zigzig20s (talk) 20:18, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] End of Rosetta mission
Nominator's comments: Hasn't happened yet, but is going to. Banedon (talk) 01:31, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Not exactly "all along". There was no plan for what do at the end of the mission - they originally considered putting it back to sleep for five years until the next orbit. It looks the decision to land it on the comet was made some time in 2014 or so. Smurrayinchester 14:36, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The article says it "ended its mission by landing on the comet near a pit called Deir el-Medina." I haven't read a lot about this topic, but it's not entirely clear to me whether the vehicle achieved a soft landing or was destroyed. Sca (talk) 22:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- PS: BBC headline: Rosetta mission ends in comet collision. Sca (talk) 22:30, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now purely on article quality. I'm fine with the rational for the nomination. But there are just too many gaps in referencing in the Rosetta article. These need to corrected before this can be posted. The article on the comet has a couple of spots that could use a cite but overall I think it's good enough. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:54, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support posting something related to this event, which imo is far more relevant to an encyclopedia than much of what we post here. I agree with Ad Orientem that the comet article is more comprehensively sourced. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:36, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose, uninteresting. Abductive (reasoning) 18:30, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, using the word "descend" rather than "crash". The event is global news and of high interest as it marks the end of a very major mission and because of the data that may have been collected during this event. ~Mable (chat) 20:52, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "Descend" seems inaccurate. Friday's BBC story said: "Europe's Rosetta probe has ended its mission to Comet 67P by crash-landing on ... the icy object's surface. Mission control in Darmstadt, Germany, was able to confirm the impact had occurred when radio contact to the ageing spacecraft was lost abruptly. The assumption is that the probe would have been damaged beyond use." Sca (talk) 21:23, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
-
- Good summary. Thanks. Sca (talk) 14:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- But should 'crash landing' be hyphenated? Sca (talk) 21:33, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Not in the school of English I was taught? Espresso Addict (talk) 21:56, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Well BBC (above) hyphenated it as a verb. But whatever.... Sca (talk) 00:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC) [reply]
2016 FIFA U-17 Women's World Cup
Nominator's comments: kicked off yesterday, continues for a month Makeandtoss (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
-
-
- Indeed (which is why I opposed myself), but I bet we wouldn't have posted the U-21 version either (which I would have supported) for the same reason ... consistency is something we need to look at on sporting events. Black Kite (talk) 17:53, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
-
- But as noted, WP:IAR is a policy (!!) no less so whether former consensus or not established that we should not post junior events (just as it established we no longer judge "super notability" of RDs), it is still perfectly acceptable to do so. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Good point. But I take a somewhat conservative approach to IAR. My view is that (with apologies to one of our former presidents) invoking IAR should be safe, legal and rare. I have done it a few times myself. But only in unusual situations where I really thought that an exception to an existing guideline was warranted but that circumstances did not justify changing the guideline itself. Here I have doubts about the guideline. If I was going to go down this path, I'd just propose removing most of the college/university level sports events from ITNR. And if someone made that proposal, I'd probably support it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:08, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Me too, but for consistency, with the RD entry below where IAR is quoted as a way of getting out of posting an RD even if it meets the quality threshold, it only seems reasonable to quote it here to note to others that IAR doesn't just apply as and when they feel appropriate. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:17, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
September 29
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September 29, 2016 (Thursday)
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[Posted] RD: Shirley Jaffe
Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and referenced. MurielMary (talk) 09:39, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Good job on the referencing, but I think more detail is needed on her style, works and critical reception before this can be posted. A list of some of her notable works is lacking, as is any detail on her sculpture. Pre-expansion there was a quotation that has been removed, which was useful; I assume this couldn't be referenced? The lead also could do with being a little longer. There's a long obituary in French from Le Figaro but embarrassingly I can't read the technical French.[2] Espresso Addict (talk) 17:46, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the suggestions - have expanded somewhat. Espresso Addict MurielMary (talk) 20:58, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, I'm prepared to Support now. To the comment below about her death not being in the mainstream news, Le Figaro seems adequate. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:36, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Light show nominations for RD are assessed on the quality of the article, not the notability of the subject. MurielMary (talk) 20:18, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "In the news" means widespread/general coverage, not a mention in the subsection of a niche periodical. And, yes, the readership of the Saturday Arts & Design section of the NYT is a niche audience.
- Notability no longer a criteria for opposing a nom. Quality of article only. MurielMary (talk) 22:43, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The revised RD guidelines presumes that anyone with an article is sufficiently notable to be listed on RD. The only valid grounds for opposition is article quality. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:44, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It damn well is a criteria; WP:Ignore all rules is a WP:Policy. How dare you two attempt to stifle debate with your bogus claim? Abductive (reasoning) 23:16, 1 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Posted. I agree that Jaffe is not the most important, notable, or widely reported of deaths, but the community endorsed a quite permissive approach to selecting postings at RD. Also, her inclusion is far from the least notable or least prominent to be posted since the RFC. Dragons flight (talk) 20:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Closed] 2016 Hoboken train crash
No Consensus This nomination has gotten a lot of attention with the early votes breaking towards Support. However as time has passed the sentiment appears to have shifted in the other direction. Given the level of participation and the current split there would have to be an avalanche of support votes to get consensus, and I just don't see that happening. If someone thinks consensus to post is realistically attainable feel free to reopen the discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:24, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 14:26, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply] - Wait but lean support There's conflicting numbers but all have at least 1 dead, possibly more, and dozens in critical conditions, with the total number injured above 100. This is a significant commuter rail accident but let's make sure the details are firmed up before posting. --MASEM (t) 14:30, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I have been following the story closely since it broke, now three dead with the toll likely to rise significantly as dozens are "critically hurt". A significant train accident from the looks of it. Prevan (talk) 14:33, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait but this is probably going to turn into a support fairly soon. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Not everything is about death toll. There are hundreds injured, that should suffice. Article is still quite poor at the moment, though. Banedon (talk) 14:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support significant train accident - definitely abnormal in the United States. 138.51.138.90 (talk) 15:11, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose
Wait train crashes that kill 3 1 (as of this post) are not that rare, and unless there's a higher death count or evidence of a crime this rates at about the level of a multiple-car traffic accident. At this point the best place for readers to look is the area news, not a lagging encyclopedia. μηδείς (talk) 16:14, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - While the level of fatalities appears mercifully low compared to other rail accidents, it's still a grave matter. And there's a wider story regarding the failure to implement Positive Train Control systems under the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008. (The US lags considerably compared to Europe in such matters.) AlexTiefling (talk) 16:16, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Yes, the number of deaths appears low (fortunately!!! And that is the only thing about it anyone should ever say!) And many of the injuries actually appear to be not as sever as first thought. But this is still a major crash. Firstly, as Alex noted, theres the PTC angle. Secondly, the structural damage to the terminal is very large, with a partial roof collapse. And that terminal is a nationally registered historic landmark; the roof itself is actually the first example of the Bush-type train shed, and its destruction, even partial, is notable in itself. oknazevad (talk) 16:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - article now in good shape. Rare for a rail accident to cause such severe damage to a station. Mjroots (talk) 17:21, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Oppose – Per μηδείς, Daniel Case. – Sca (talk) 17:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. BBC is now saying 1 dead and dozens injured.[3] The article is currently not much above a stub and does not mention the historic nature of the building, nor does it discuss the underlying safety issues. I'm not opposed to posting this (especially as the news it would displace is very stale) but an accurate, non-sensationalist blurb and a reasonably-fleshed-out article are first needed. Espresso Addict (talk) 18:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose this is headline news at this moment, mainly due to its location, but if I recall correctly, at least two recent railway crashes in Western Europe with multiple deaths/casualties were not posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Searching through the archives, I found Dalfsen crash from Feb 2016 where the train was nearly empty and one death occurred (not posted), Hermalle-sous-Huy crash from June 2016 where three died, 40 injured (not posted), Andria collision where 20 were killed (posted), Amtrak derailment in April 2016 where 2 groundcrew were killed (not posted). There might be more and I do sorta see the comparison simply on the the death/injured numbers that this is nothing like a major incident (eg the Andria one), but there are points about the damage to the historic terminal and the failure of a major safety feature, rather than just human error, that seem to play to this too. --MASEM (t) 19:17, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- To the latter point, unless I'm reading it incorrectly, the train wasn't fitted with the so-called PTC (per the BBC, According New Jersey Transit's most recent PTC progress report, none of the 440 trains on the New Jersey Transit rail line are equipped with PTC, nor have any employees been trained on the equipment.), so it wasn't a failing of a major safety feature, more likely human error. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- You're right, it's human error - but now reading further, it appears that they were originally set to be required by 2015, but Congress extended the deadline to meet complaints by train companies. Now, I know we're not yet at the point to determine if the lack of PTC would have prevented this, so the political failing here is likely a sideline issue, but it could be significant. I would still consider all other factors equal that the damage to an historic building atop the incident makes this more than just another tragic train crash. --MASEM (t) 19:53, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support as a train colliding with a station is somewhat rare, as is a historic building being damaged in such an accident. 331dot (talk) 19:26, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per TRM. We are down to a single death. This is starting to look like a lot less than what we originally thought. Yeah there was some property damage and a high number of injured, but we have refused rail related accidents with higher casualties. Issues involving safety laws are extremely common with any transportation related accident. Sorry, but as the dust settles and things are becoming more clear I just don't think this rises to ITN level and posting this would be hard to square with recent precedent. Some consistency in standards would be kinda nice. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose It is certainly big news here in the NY metro area, but I would not see it as ITN-worthy unless we are really having a slow day. Daniel Case (talk) 21:17, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @Daniel Case: ITN has been going slow as of late - most of the blurbs posted on ITN have gone stale. 138.51.138.90 (talk) 23:31, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose There might be no such thing as a "run of the mill" railway accident, but this is certainly one, that whilst tragic, fits the bill. Black Kite (talk) 22:27, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. 100+ injuries is a significant incident. -- Tavix (talk) 01:25, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - A "run of the mill" raiway accident generally doesn't occur within a station while incurring significant structural damage to said station. - Floydian τ ¢ 03:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Marking as ready, overall consensus is to post and ITN is a bit stale. Mjroots (talk) 10:28, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose - not enough notable (maybe important only in US) for posting on the main page. - EugεnS¡m¡on 10:36, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per Black Kite. Tragic, but unexceptional. List_of_rail_accidents_(2010–present)#2016 shows the numerous bigger rail crashes, including some in the US, just this year which we haven't posted. Modest Genius talk 12:57, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. There was a significant (non-fatal but multiple critical injuries) crash near Watford Junction a couple of weeks ago on one of the main commuter routes into central London, right at the start of the morning peak period. We're talking 20 miles from the likes of Trafalgar Square, Downing Street, the Houses of Parliament, Buckingham Palace etc. It brought the West Coast Main Line to a near-standstill for a few days, and it remained at a crawl for a while beyond that. A couple of fatalities in that crash would have brought that incident into a comparable bracket to this one. The only other difference being that Hoboken station is, size wise and proximity from the city centre wise, about half way between Watford Junction and London Euston.
This isn't an "other stuff exists" oppose. Quite the opposite - I would have opposed the above incident if it were nominated and had a handful of fatalities (though I'd undoubtedly have gotten off my lazy wiki-behind and gotten stuck in on the article). While high profile and tragic, my point is that if we were to post this, I think we'd be opening ourselves up to posting train crashes more frequently than I believe we should be. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 13:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Removing the "Ready" at the top. We do not currently have a consensus in favor of posting this item. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:14, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose posting this would set the bar too low for train crashes (1 death + some structural damage). BencherliteTalk 17:43, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Closed] RD: Miriam Defensor Santiago
Closing without prejudice to reopening upon article improvement. This is a fairly long article with multiple orange tags and huge gaps in referencing. Dramatic improvements will be required before this can be seriously considered for ITN/RD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:07, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Former Filipino senator. Article is comprehensive, with only a few "citation needed" tabs. EternalNomad (talk) 02:59, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
September 28
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September 28, 2016 (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
[Posted] RD: Agnes Nixon
Nominator's comments: Article had orange maintenance tags, which I have resolved and removed. However there is an IP user on the article busily reverting my edits. MurielMary (talk) 04:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support While the article is not horrible, there are a few too many gaps in sourcing to post right now. These need to be filled in. Any claims of fact that are not obviously non-controversial need citations. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- TRM, are you referring to the paragraphs of prose being under-referenced, or do you think the last two sections (lists of writing positions) need to be referenced?? Thanks. MurielMary (talk) 20:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Not TRM, but there are several uncited paragraphs with content that could be challenged; I'll add citation tags. The lists of writing positions right at the bottom don't appear encyclopedic & probably need cutting out altogether. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:13, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes true, have removed as they are probably unencyclopedic as well (overly detailed) MurielMary (talk) 19:19, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Closed] WorldView-4
[Closed] MH17
Nominator's comments: Major step in the investigation, and nearly checkmate (they still need to know who pressed the button) Smurrayinchester 13:08, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- oppose for same reasons that this adds nothing.
- But lord, ya'll will believe anything the MSM posits, wont you? Meanwhile World War III has now begun in South Asia too...someone should nominate that.Lihaas (talk) 11:35, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose no actual impact. When there will be sanctions of some sort sure, but until then the conclusion does nothing of substance. Nergaal (talk) 17:17, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait per Sca, as this story really hasn't reached a conclusion. Russia deny any involvement, Ukraine are happy to see the report. What changes? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I'm not sure why everyone is claiming this is "inconclusive". News articles say the opposite. Per CNN: "Speaking at a press conference in the Dutch city of Nieuwegein, Wilbert Paulissen, the head of the Dutch National Detective Force, said there was conclusive evidence that a missile from the Russian-made Buk 9M38 missile system downed the passenger flight on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people on board." Smurrayinchester 07:37, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- What's inconclusive is, who did it? The Buk stuff has been known for months. (Changed my wait to oppose.) Sca (talk) 17:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I've undone Ad Orientem's good faith closure, since I'm not seeing a consensus. "Wait" isn't the same as "Oppose"; we've wound up posting many items for which "wait" was a perfectly reasonable first position (e.g. the Turkish coup). I have no opinion on the nomination yet. Banedon (talk) 07:53, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose that the Russians were responsible is old news. The lead of the article says that the Dutch Safety Board concluded this in October 2015, and it wasn't even the first to reach this conclusion. All this does, it seems, is add a bit more detail to the Russian involvement. BencherliteTalk 17:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Posted] RD: Max Walker
Nominator's comments: Played 34 cricket tests for Australia, plus was a very good Aussie Rules footballer. Article sourcing needs improvement, but there are plenty of obituaries this morning that can be used as sources, so I will start addressing that. I don't know who to list as the "updater" because many IPs have made small contributions. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I have removed the Ref Improve tag. Unfortunately there is another orange tag there that needs to be removed before this can be posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted with blurb] RD with blurb: Shimon Peres
Nominator's comments: Not sure who to credit as updaters - maybe me and others? EdChem (talk) 02:30, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Parts of the article still require more citations. On the question of whether there should be a blurb, I tend to think that Peres falls just short of the threshold. He was certainly a very important Israeli leader, but I would not say he stands out as obviously more significant than other recent Israeli leaders, such as Rabin, Sharon, Netanyahu and Olmert. At his age, there was also nothing unexpected about his death. Neljack (talk) 02:59, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Oh man. This really needs to be posted at least to RD and I think a credible argument can be made for a blurb. Unfortunately, once again, we are confounded by crappy referencing. Sigh... -Ad Orientem (talk)
- Oppose blurb even with sourcing. I don't think he rises to that level. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:15, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support blurb with sourcing Peres was often known as a founding father of Israel, and had huge impact on the entire region. Definitely reaches Lee Kuan Yew level of notability. EternalNomad (talk) 03:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support blurb sigh. I know he's not American, not from an English country, and he only won a Nobel Peace Prize rather than starred in Bicentennial Man. I just think it's sad In the News used to have genuine international stories, and now it's beneath the level of market tabloids. Ribbet32 (talk) 03:43, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- ITN has its problems but I'm not sure that's a fair shot. The only reason this may not get posted is because of the lack luster quality of the article. ITN is not a news feed. It exists to highlight good quality articles whose subjects are topical by reason of current news coverage. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose in current state due to lack of citations. MurielMary (talk) 03:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- A separate article about his death and state funeral could be plausibly be written, so this could get a blurb. (Though I don't really expect anyone to bother, given the woeful state his main article was in, though that's at least improving.) The way to do get it there is the same way to get it to RD: proper sourcing in the article, not frivolous complaints about other articles that were acceptably sourced. —Cryptic 04:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe, but I think it would be begging for an AfD nom as a content fork and per NOTNEWS. He died of natural causes at 93. And state funerals almost never get their own articles. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- There is no requirement that for a blurb to be supported that a separate article on the death/funeral have to be made. --MASEM (t) 04:16, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't mean to say that a separate article needs to be made, just that it be plausible that one could be. And while there's no requirement for even that, there's no requirement that I not oppose a nomination for failing it, either. —Cryptic 05:36, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support on improvements, RD for sure, general support for blurb - Some weak sourcing but this can be fixed. A former elected leader of a major nation should be given a blurb, the nobel prize pushes it further, but I would like to see a better article for that blurb to be supported. --MASEM (t) 04:16, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- In what sense is Israel a major nation, Masem? It is a mid-size country, albeit one that receives a lot of attention due to its geopolitical situation and controversy. We must be wary of systemic bias. And even in the case of countries that clearly are major nations, I'm not convinced that every former elected leader would warrant a blurb - would you really say that every former Prime Minister of Italy or Japan (and there are lots of them, some of whom held office for quite short periods), and every former President of Mexico or the Philippines, warrant blurbs. That would seem a big change from our current practice. Neljack (talk) 06:57, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- by precedent we posted yitzak shamir (I did the update) and he was head of govt and sate. just reword blurb to remove nobel OR title as its too wordy. (btw- nobel deaths are also precedent here).Lihaas (talk) 04:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support blurb. Article seems to be in better shape, includes important historical details, and uses nearly 70 citations.--Light show (talk) 04:47, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I have been adding sourcing as have some others. Happy to try to find a suitable source for anything still felt to need it. I would ask earlier commenters on sourcing to please re-evaluate and identify / tag anything still needing work. As for the blurb issue, I'm obviously in favour as a Nobel Laureate who helped to found Israel, was a leader for 50+ years, negotiated their nuclear program, was an instigator of the Suez war, etc. Have a look at his description in the New York Times. EdChem (talk) 04:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- PS: Would someone experienced with ITN please see who deserves credit as updaters? Thanks. EdChem (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It seems to be Avaya1 who has made by far the most substantial updates. It's easy: I added him to the ITN template above, and then just hit "Give credit". Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:18, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- @The Rambling Man: I asked specifically because I was unsure whether the 'updater' credit(s) belong to those who post the information updated in the blurb or all updates to the article to make it ITN-ready. Avaya1 did a lot of work after the blurb was posted. I did quite a bit of referencing, as well as adding material and references on the death, after posting the ITN request in response to well-justified criticisms of inadequate referencing. Others had already added some material on the death. Hence my request. By the way, with "giving credit", does that involve something on user talk pages, as I have had no notification. Just asking. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support blurb once referencing issues have been addressed. Significant Middle-East politician. Mjroots (talk) 05:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Support blurb. Very long political career (66 years!); probably the last major figure of the Israeli founding generation; Nobel Prize shows international significance. Article needs some work, but nothing precluding posting. Neutralitytalk 07:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Posted with blurb. Dragons flight (talk) 07:40, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Post-posting support of blurb. High international significance, given his impact. 331dot (talk) 08:41, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- PP support I don't often lump on, but in this case, a good call. Only issue I have with the article on a quick glance is the massively excessive use of External links. But meh. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:15, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I've been working on this article (mainly the section on the Suez crisis) for a couple of years. But as you can see, the referencing and historical sections (aside from the coverage of Suez) are really not great, including some parts I've added today (without access to the relevant books). The only part of the article which goes into real historical detail is the Suez crisis. Today I've re-ordered the lede and added some quotes from Peres (since he is famous for making memorable quotes or bon-mots). However, the article certainly needs a lot of expansion to cover the other parts of his career (the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc). Also, not everything in the article is well-cited currently. In terms of the subject's notability though - he is clearly one of the most significant figures in recent history, as evidenced by the fact his funeral will be attended by leaders from the around the world. He was one of the father's of Israel nuclear program, Rafael, the Oslo process, etc. Avaya1 (talk) 20:01, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
September 27
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September 27, 2016 (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Sports
[Closed] Interplanetary Transport System
Nominator's comments: This is "the" project launch from the major "new space" company that has already delivered and there is already something done-ish about this also, like Raptor-engines. Usp (talk) 00:26, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply] - Oppose good faith nomination. Unless I am misreading this, what we have here is the latest progress report on a long term plan to colonize Mars. While the whole thing sounds fascinating, we don't really post these kinds of reports. If/when this thing actually is launched with Mars as its destination, I can all but promise we will post it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:04, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose - if I understand the sources right, nothing is actually happening yet or will happen for a very long time. It sounds like just plans - intricate plans perhaps, but still only plans. If and when the spacecraft is built and launched, then we can post it. Banedon (talk) 01:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose though we should certainly post the launch in 2018 if it happens. - Floydian τ ¢ 03:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose; though the first launch of its rocket would be ITNR when it happens. 331dot (talk) 08:42, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Leaning support this guy has kept his words in the past so this IS going to happen as long as he doesn't die. Nergaal (talk) 08:56, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose as a purely aspirational announcement. We can feature this spacecraft if/when it actually launches. Can't say I'm holding my breath. Modest Genius talk 10:11, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose until and unless there is an actual launch. -- KTC (talk) 11:17, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Closed] Three-parent baby
Soft Close This nomination and the proposed target article have far too many issues that need to be addressed before this can be seriously considered at ITN. This close is without prejudice and any editor who believes the issues identified in the discussion have been corrected should feel free to re-open the nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jenda H. (talk) 18:03, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
[Closed] Loma Fire
Consensus is against posting at this time. The article is a three sentence micro-stub. To the extent there is a news story at all it looks mostly local/regional. Barring some dramatic development there is no chance this will be posted on ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:22, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Not sure if this should be considered ongoing or not. Seems like it's spreading according to sources. Dat GuyTalkContribs 16:19, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply] - Oppose posting the mere beginning of a wildfire, which are quite common in California and the Western US. If there are things like very large scale evacuations, large amounts of damage or casualties, etc., something to hang our hat on, I would reconsider. Reporting on this seems limited as well. I would add Ongoing would only be appropriate if the article gets regular incremental updates that individually would not merit posting on their own, but would collectively. Lastly, the blurb would need to be globalized a bit, many readers might not know where the Santa Cruz mountains are. 331dot (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Between Santa Cruz and Los Gatos, 10 mi. S. of San Jose. Fairly extensive article here. Sca (talk) 14:10, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose good faith nom for now, per 331dot. Not at all clear this is going to become a major story. Also the article is a stub and would require significant expansion with solid sourcing to be seriously considered for ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:26, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Wait ... for now, pending developments. Forest Service lists 25 wildfires in Calif., but the Loma fire isn't among them as of Wednesday morning. However, up to 300 homes said to be threatened. Sca (talk) 13:58, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose article is a stub and the consequences are small, fortunately (this says evacuation orders lifted and only 8 houses destroyed). BencherliteTalk 17:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose. This is still a small fire. For an example of a fire that would be ITN-worthy, see 2016 Fort McMurray wildfire. 129.97.118.173 (talk) 19:53, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
September 26
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September 26, 2016 (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
- A gunman opens fire at a Houston shopping center and injures nine people. Responding police kill the shooter afterwards. (Fox News)
Politics and elections
Science and technology
[Posted] Ongoing: Aleppo offensive
- Glad he's not going to be our President!--WaltCip (talk) 18:34, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
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