Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greenfield High School (Massachusetts) - Wikipedia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. I do see the request for a relist, but I don't think that's needed here. Since an outcome of delete is not going to result from this discussion, I'd suggest continuing the school age/source depth discussion on the Talk as it does not need to be limited to ~ 7 days at AfD. If those involved in the discussion don't feel a consensus is possible, it can be renominated. Star Mississippi 18:06, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greenfield High School (Massachusetts) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG, run of the mill high school, a search for sources turned up a mix of primary sources, database entries or mentions. Since the deprecation of WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES, schools are not automatically notable. I am not seeing evidence of notability here. Lavalizard101 (talk) 12:56, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Schools, and Massachusetts. Lavalizard101 (talk) 12:56, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already PROD'd so Soft Deletion is not an option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:54, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment reviewing the article history the original prod was back in 2007 and the page was deleted. As the prod was back in 2007, I don't think it should count against a soft deletion outcome. Lavalizard101 (talk) 10:12, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Nearly everything I have found is WP:ROUTINE, but this source [1] mentions a Greenfield High School for young ladies. See page 256. Is this the same establishment? If so it appears to have a considerable history that bears further searching. If this school is much more modern, though, I doubt it is notable. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Greenfield, Massachusetts#Education. It is usual to redirect non notable schools to their school district, which is Greenfield school district in this case, but the district has no page either. But, Greenfield is the only city in Franklin County, and is co-extensive with the school district. Not only is that a suitable location, it is also the best place for a reader to find contextualised information about this school. It is already mentioned in the education section and this page has nothing notable beyond that. I did carry out searches. There is a PhD thesis that did some research here (a primary source) and the usual slew of news reporting, mostly about former students who have passed away, but also a teacher who took the school to court for not giving him Good Friday off and other such. But these are all WP:ROUTINE and WP:PRIMARY. I was unable to locate any history or in depth information about the school beyond what the school rankings sites carry. Nothing from which the page could be expanded. Does not pass WP:NORG nor WP:GNG. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Schools, which says:

  All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must either satisfy the notability guidelines for organizations, the general notability guideline, or both. For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations and must satisfy those criteria. (See also WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES)

  Sources
  1. The Republican articles
     1. Kinney, Jim (2014-03-02). "First phase of new $53 million Greenfield High School is under construction". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "The first phase of a four-phase, $53-million reconstruction of Greenfield High School is scheduled to be completed in August. The project, being done by Boston-based Shawmut Design and Construction, will result in nearly all of the high school being torn down and replaced in stages from now until December 2015, said Michael Kearns a project manager with Shawmut."

     2. Contrada, Fred (2012-05-02). "Greenfield votes overwhelmingly to fund new high school". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "At a little less than 160,000 square feet, the new building will be about 6,000 square feet smaller than the present high school. It is designed to accommodate 585 students. There are 477 students at the Lennox Avenue school at present."

     3. Serreze, Mary C. (2015-09-02). "Brand-new Greenfield High School opens its doors (Photos)". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "The building features new science labs, 20 new classrooms, a modern cafeteria, and 1000-seat auditorium. Indoor athletic facilities are completed, while some outdoor sports facilities are still under construction. The 160,000 square foot building is designed to accommodate 585 students."

     4. Contrada, Fred (2014-08-20). "New Greenfield High School to open Sept. 2". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "The doors to the first completed phase of the Greenfield High School reconstruction will open Sept. 2, when students return to the new facility for the 2014-2015 school year. The new building on Lenox Avenue features mostly classroom space. It is part of a $66 million project to replace the 50-year-old high school, which was located on the same site. The next phase will involve the demolition of the older part of the complex to make way for a new auditorium, gymnasium and science labs."

  2. The Recorder articles
     1. Curtis, Chris (2015-09-01). "First day of (new) school: Shiny new Greenfield High School opens its doors". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2015-10-06. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "After two years of construction and millions of dollars, the new Greenfield High School opens in its entirety today for the first day of school in a building that looks nothing like the old. ... The four new science labs include hooded chemical stations, windows, counters and a lab with a sealed floor and drains, where glass tanks were already filling up with reptiles, a hedgehog, two bearded dragons, and other empty tanks stood ready for poison dart frogs and aquatic life including crabs and a 100-year-old box turtle."

     2. Johnston, Thomas (2024-09-20). "Ceremony held to rename athletic fields behind Greenfield High School to "Donna Woodcock Field"". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "The athletic fields behind Greenfield High School officially have a new name. The Greenfield City Council voted on August 21 to rename the athletic fields behind Greenfield High School to “Donna Woodcock Field” and on Friday, the dedication ceremony took place. ... Woodcock coached the Greenfield High School field hockey program from 1982-2005 and the softball team from 1989-2004. She later spent time as the Green Wave athletic director and was also the school’s principal."

     3. Cammalleri, Anthony (2024-03-13). "Four Corners principal to take helm at Greenfield High School". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "Effective July 1, Discovery School at Four Corners Principal Michael Browning will take the helm at Greenfield High School following Principal Derek Morrison’s June 1 departure. ... Morrison has served as principal since January 2022. Although Morrison declined to comment on the reasoning behind his exit from Greenfield High School, he said he is proud of the school’s growth over the course of two years."

     4. Cammalleri, Anthony (2024-03-08). "Greenfield High School revives Drama Club with production of 'Myth Adventures'". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "After a four-year hiatus, the Greenfield High School Drama Club will return to the stage for its production of “Myth Adventures: Five Greek Classics.” ... Faced with a limited budget, the club found creative ways to ensure the show went on as planned, recruiting the help of the school’s life skills program workers to sew curtains from the Salvation Army into robes and togas."

     5. Poli, Domenic (2024-01-25). "Greenfield High School students appeal to policymakers for help on local issues". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

        The article notes: "Roughly 40 Greenfield High School students convened in the building’s library Thursday to talk with policymakers about the issues important to them.The YELO (Youth Engage with Legislators and Officials) forum fostered roundtable discussions on substance abuse, homelessness, school supports and Greenfield’s economic development. Teachers coordinated with the DIAL/SELF AmeriCorps program to facilitate the event, complete with pizza, drinks and snacks."

  3. Kincade, Katrina (2020-05-06). "Greenfield High School to hold graduation at Franklin County Fairgrounds, followed by parade". WWLP. Archived from the original on 2020-05-15. Retrieved 2024-10-01.

     The article notes: "Greenfield High School has found a way to have their senior graduation while adhering to social distancing protocols. The new ceremony for the 69 graduating seniors will take place at the Franklin County Fairgrounds on May 30th. ... The principal of the school, Karin Patenaude, has been with the class since 6th grade."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Greenfield High School to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 09:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cunard, how are any of these more than WP:ROUTINE? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:18, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ROUTINE redirects to Wikipedia:Notability (events)#Routine coverage. The lead of Wikipedia:Notability (events) says:

This notability guideline for events reflects consensus reached through discussions and reinforced by established practice, and informs decisions on whether an article about past, current, and breaking news events should be written, merged, deleted or further developed.

Greenfield High School is not an event so Wikipedia:Notability (events) is not the applicable notability guideline.

The applicable notability guidelines are Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Schools and Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline which this school passes through having received significant coverage in reliable sources. Cunard (talk) 10:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The school is not an event, but what you have are non notable events that constitute routine coverage and do not provide WP:SIGCOV, which in this case is a school, subject to WP:NORG per SCHOOLOUTCOMES. I am all for treating public schools a little less stringently than WP:ORGCRITE, as they are not commercial companies trying to game the rules, but WP:ORGDEPTH is still clear that

Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability. Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization.

So SIGCOV is not achieved by ROUTINE events that are neither notable in themselves, nor give anything from which an article may be written. So to put my question another way, which of these sources provide us with suitable ORGDEPTH coverage? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:58, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: the coverage provided above is beyond sufficient for establishing notability. As evidenced by the quotes, the sources include detailed significant coverage on a wide range of encyclopedic topics to be expected in a high school article:
  • Campus design and construction
  • Student population
  • Science program
  • Athletic history and facilities
  • Principals
  • Drama club
  • Library activities
  • Graduation ceremonies

Left guide (talk) 22:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, just to clear the air, WP:NSCHOOL stipulates that public schools are only required to meet WP:GNG or WP:NORG but not necessarily both. Only private for-profit schools are required to pass both GNG and NORG. So if anyone wants to argue against notability, GNG is the yardstick; we're not raising the bar higher than the guidelines demand. I'll quote NSCHOOL below:

All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must either satisfy the notability guidelines for organizations, the general notability guideline, or both. For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations and must satisfy those criteria.

On another note, as Cunard says, WP:ROUTINE is wholly irrelevant to this discussion because it's on a guideline page that refers to notability for event articles, and this article is not about an event. Left guide (talk) 02:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And WP:ORGDEPTH describes what constitutes significant coverage when meeting GNG. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability. It never is. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:20, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And WP:ORGDEPTH describes what constitutes significant coverage when meeting GNG. Wrong, ORGDEPTH describes what constitutes significant coverage when meeting NORG; it's directly in the NORG page. And WP:SIGCOV describes what constitutes significant coverage when meeting GNG; it's directly in the GNG section:

"Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material.

The source quotes furnished by Cunard above meet that standard, and hence the GNG is satisfied. Left guide (talk) 07:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is rules lawyering. To meet GNG you need SIGCOV. You cannot ignore what NORG says about SIGCOV for an organisation and rely on a lack of clarity in GNG to pass something on a string of trivial mentions. The question is always what encyclopaedic article can be written from the sources. Cunard gives us 3 sources. Yes, it looks like more, but Cunard knows, and carefully numbered them 1-3, that multiple articles from a single source count as one source when considering notability against GNG. Now if we look at the three sources we see that:

1. The Republican is a Springfield local newspaper. All the coverage is on the school building programme. We do get the acreage of the site and knowledge that this school opened in 2015. Newspaper coverage of the opening and things like residents voting to borrow money to pay for it etc. are WP:PRIMARYNEWS, local interest and provide no depth about the school. It fills a set of facts but I do not see any of those meeting GNG.
2. The Recorder covers Greenfield and the whole of the county, but is again a local paper. The coverage looks routine to me, but there is a little more here. This is in depth about a principal [2] but says almost nothing about the school. This one is about the drama club [3] which is relevant to school life, and I would be interested in a discussion as to how that could meet SIGCOV. To me, it looks routine that a local paper talks abaout a school drama, but there is, at least, something to discuss there. This covereage of an appeal to policy makers [4] doesn't look due to me and contains no SIGCOV of the school. So again, I do not see how any of this meets GNG.
3. WWLP is a local TV news channel. A short piece saying they will hold a graduation with social distancing. [5] That is routine/trivial coverage. Also, again, note that this is very much a primary source, so does not count towards GNG. A report about how a local school will be conducting graduation is unequivocally a primary source.

Now to meet GNG, you need multiple sources with significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. This is not that. GNG is not met based on these three local news sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:24, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, and wait and see what others have to say. Left guide (talk) 08:38, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Left guide's analysis about how WP:SIGCOV—not WP:ORGDEPTH—is the applicable guideline for a non-profit educational institution like Greenfield High School. These sources provide significant coverage about the subject. This is demonstrated through both the quotes I've shared and Left guide's excellent summary of the different aspects of the school covered by the sources. These are secondary sources as they contain a "synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources" (WP:SECONDARY). Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline does not require the sources to be non-local. It does not require the sources to be non-routine. Cunard (talk) 09:01, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We all agree that SIGCOV is applicable. And SIGCOV is, by definition, not trivial coverage. And no, WWLP telling its viewers that the local school will be holding a social distanced graduation is a primary source for the school. There is no synthesis, it is reporting. See WP:PRIMARYNEWS, and, indeed WP:PRIMARY especially note d. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:28, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the size and volume of the quotes provided by Cunard, it's far above and beyond trivial coverage. Trivial coverage would be if the main story is about something fundamentally different and the school is mentioned incidentally. For example, if there was coverage of a bank robbery that said Officer Smith sped past Greenfield High School on the way to the bank. That's trivial coverage. The sources provided here are clearly focused on the school in a direct, in-depth manner, and thus SIGCOV is satisfied. (Hint: the name "Greenfield High School" is in virtually all of the titles, usually a strong indicator of SIGCOV) Left guide (talk) 10:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did look at the sources, and I discussed them above. But apparently we want to talk about meta issues and not the sources. I specifically indicated one I would be happy to discuss as to how it meets SIGCOV. I cannot see that any of them meet GNG though, let alone multiple. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Appears to satisfy WP:GNG. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Source assessment:

Source assessment table:
Source	Independent?	Reliable?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Kinney, Jim (2014-03-02). "First phase of new $53 million Greenfield High School is under construction". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			The first phase of a four-phase, $53-million reconstruction of Greenfield High School is scheduled to be completed in August. The project, being done by Boston-based Shawmut Design and Construction, will result in nearly all of the high school being torn down and replaced in stages from now until December 2015, said Michael Kearns a project manager with Shawmut. The Massachusetts School Building Authority has estimated a maximum state funding for the project at $43.1 million and has approved of the design, according to the authority. The school is designed for an enrollment of 585 students in grades 8 through 12. The first phase includes 85,000 square feet of classroom space that will be ready for the next school year. The school will not close; rather, students will shift from space to space as parts of the building are torn down and rebuilt. The next phase, to begin in July, will involve taking down the existing 8th-grade wing and building classrooms and an auditorium in its place. Kearns said there are about 60 to 80 tradespeople on the work site at any given time, with many of them being local residents. Greenfield citizens voted in 2012 to borrow up to $24 million for the project.	✔ Yes
Contrada, Fred (2012-05-02). "Greenfield votes overwhelmingly to fund new high school". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			Residents voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to borrow money for a new $66 million high school. The 2,392-557 vote means the town will borrow $24 million for its share of the project, the rest of which is being financed by the state. The local money will come in the form of a debt exclusion, which differs from a straight override of Proposition 2 ½ in that the money will stop being deducted from the tax base once the project is paid for. Straight overrides permanently raise the tax base. In March, the Town Council voted in favor of the borrowing but put the matter before the voters for final approval. The project calls for the existing high school to be razed except for the auditorium. The new building will be constructed around that. At a little less than 160,000 square feet, the new building will be about 6,000 square feet smaller than the present high school. It is designed to accommodate 585 students. There are 477 students at the Lennox Avenue school at present. The new school will also include an all-weather track and turf field, a renovated 1,000 seat auditorium, 20 classrooms, five science labs, computer labs and art studios. Officials hope to break ground next spring and complete the project by 2015.	✔ Yes
Serreze, Mary C. (2015-09-02). "Brand-new Greenfield High School opens its doors (Photos)". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			Local teenagers begin classes this week in a brand-new Greenfield High School. The school building gained a certificate of occupancy Monday, just in time for an evening open house, where members of the community toured the facility. Greenfield voters in 2012 overwhelmingly approved a debt exclusion to borrow $24 million for the town's share of the $66 million project. The building has been two years in construction. Over that time, classes were taught in sections of both buildings as the old school was torn down to make way for the new, reports the Greenfield Recorder. The building features new science labs, 20 new classrooms, a modern cafeteria, and 1000-seat auditorium. Indoor athletic facilities are completed, while some outdoor sports facilities are still under construction. The 160,000 square foot building is designed to accommodate 585 students. The project was designed and managed by the architectural firm of Dore & Whittier.	✔ Yes
Contrada, Fred (2014-08-20). "New Greenfield High School to open Sept. 2". The Republican. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			The doors to the first completed phase of the Greenfield High School reconstruction will open Sept. 2, when students return to the new facility for the 2014-2015 school year. The new building on Lenox Avenue features mostly classroom space. It is part of a $66 million project to replace the 50-year-old high school, which was located on the same site. The next phase will involve the demolition of the older part of the complex to make way for a new auditorium, gymnasium and science labs. The project is being done by Boston-based Shawmut Design and Construction. The state has contributed $43.1, about 80 percent of the cost. Principal Donna Woodcock said Sept. 2 would be a special day for students. "They'll get to know the building better," she said. The school has yet to decide whether or not to hold an open house for the public. The new facility includes interactive "white boards," which enable teachers and students to interact electronically, and natural lighting. Staff will have access to the new building on Aug. 25 so they can organize their teaching materials. The school is designed for an enrollment of 585 students in grades 8 through 12. The first phase includes 85,000 square feet of classroom space that will be ready for the next school year. The school will not close; rather, students will shift from space to space as parts of the building are torn down and rebuilt. The next phase, to begin in July, will involve taking down the existing 8th-grade wing and building classrooms and an auditorium in its place. Kearns said there are about 60 to 80 tradespeople on the work site at any given time, with many of them being local residents. Greenfield residents voted in 2012 to borrow up to $24 million for the project.	✔ Yes
Curtis, Chris (2015-09-01). "First day of (new) school: Shiny new Greenfield High School opens its doors". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2015-10-06. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			After two years of construction and millions of dollars, the new Greenfield High School opens in its entirety today for the first day of school in a building that looks nothing like the old. Classes have been taught in portions of the old and new school as one was demolished to make way for the other, but the final veil was lifted this week with an open house Monday night for students and parents. The rear athletic fields and other outdoor elements of the $66 million project remain to be completed. On the empty roof garden overlooking the back athletic field with the new track still under construction, incoming junior Alyssa Garvin was looking forward to the new science rooms and apprehensive about the sod athletic field. As a field hockey player, she had hoped for artificial turf and worries the new fields will degenerate as the old did. Overall, however, she saw improvement. “Oh it’s a lot better, the old building was falling apart over us. Walk in and there’d be a new leak every day in the old building. At least this year hopefully that won’t happen,” Garvin said. Garvin, who is taking advanced placement chemistry among a slate of advanced courses, is excited to get into the new science rooms. Taking chemistry last year in a temporary room was frustrating, she said, with no facilities for hands-on work. The year before that, in the old lab, the sinks didn’t work. The four new science labs include hooded chemical stations, windows, counters and a lab with a sealed floor and drains, where glass tanks were already filling up with reptiles, a hedgehog, two bearded dragons, and other empty tanks stood ready for poison dart frogs and aquatic life including crabs and a 100-year-old box turtle. Biology and permaculture teacher Cathy Wilkins was still at work on the lab Monday with a student teacher. She also plans to build planters on the roof outside the lab windows, originally intended to be a “green roof” covered with plant life before a change of plans in the budget. “Unbelievable. Last year we didn’t even really have running water. This is amazing,” Wilkins said of the new teaching space, before embarking on a tour of the numerous organisms on display in the room. Many, like the hedgehog, were abandoned and she sees an additional lesson that wild animals aren’t pets. Wilkins and her husband began building the educational menagerie in the old school, but she never had a purpose-built space. Benefits include a floor that directs spilled water to central drains, instead of the hallway. In the science hall, parents Rosemarie Freeland and Phillip Smith, with ninth grader Zahri Smith, were pleased with what they had seen of the school. “As a GHS alumna I’m very impressed, and grateful. Go Greenfield! Because the citizens of Greenfield agreed to override Proposition 21/2 , we have this building,” said Freeland of the GHS class of 1983. Freeland wasn’t the only alumna impressed with the changes. “I went here, so it’s fabulous,” said Nickie Rice, after son Cameron Rice called the building “pretty nice.” Nickie Rice said she won’t miss the leaking roof. Cameron Rice, new to the school as an eighth grader, was looking forward to math class. Kerri and Jeremy Damon, who also attended the school, were pleased to find the new building on their return from Louisiana. “It’s a whole different building,” Jeremy Damon said. Their son is going into eighth grade. “Believe me, coming from Louisiana schools, where he’s gone for the last 10 years, this is going to be like ‘wow!’” Kerri Damon said, adding she was a little worried to find the eighth grade had been added to high school, but she figured her son would be fine as the youngest of five siblings. The Damons were not alone in thinking the new building was bigger than the old, an impression the red brick interior and brightly-lit halls give despite a smaller overall area. The cafeteria, auditorium, audio-visual lab, gymnasium, locker rooms, training room, weight room and science labs are among the newest elements of the school, turned over to the town days before the start of school. Clerk of the Works Jeffrey Dome of Construction Monitoring Services, the firm hired to oversee the GHS reconstruction project, said the town building department issued a certificate of occupancy for the building Monday. “It now is the town’s property except the Phase 4 area, which is ongoing,” Dome said. Phase 4 includes the track, some parking and paving, all of which Dome said will be done before Thanksgiving. In the meantime, he said students can expect to see finishing touches being applied to the building. Architects will walk through and create a list of minor blemishes to be rectified in that time.	✔ Yes
Johnston, Thomas (2024-09-20). "Ceremony held to rename athletic fields behind Greenfield High School to "Donna Woodcock Field"". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			The athletic fields behind Greenfield High School officially have a new name. The Greenfield City Council voted on August 21 to rename the athletic fields behind Greenfield High School to “Donna Woodcock Field” and on Friday, the dedication ceremony took place. After words from Greenfield athletic director Mike Kuchieski and Greenfield superintendent Karin Patenaude, Donna Woodcock’s mother, Barbara Woodcock, pulled down the ribbon to unveil the sign officially designating the fields as “Donna Woodcock Field” prior to the Greenfield field hockey teams game against West Springfield. “I’d like to thank everyone for being here today,” Kuchieski said. “It was a sad day the day we lost our Donna. This is a great dedication to her. I can’t say enough about everything she has done for me and everything she’s done for this school, community and student athletes. I think about her everyday and what Donna would do and that’s what I try to do.” Woodcock coached the Greenfield High School field hockey program from 1982-2005 and the softball team from 1989-2004. She later spent time as the Green Wave athletic director and was also the school’s principal. With the Greenfield field hockey team, she compiled a 265-83-53 record, won five western Massachusetts titles and made it to four state championship games. Woodcock won two state titles, the first coming in 1989, the second in 1999. She tragically passed away in a in a car crash in 2023 at the age of 65. Mother Barbara Woodcock, sister Karen Woodcock and brother Dana Woodcock, along with former players and coaches, were in attendance for the field dedication ceremony on Friday. “No matter how much all of us here today miss Donna’s presence, we know that your loss is greater than any we could comprehend,” Patenaude said to the family. “We hope that today’s recognition of Donna helps ease some of the pain and show how loved and respected she was, especially in the athletic community. We’re gathered today to celebrate and remember the life of Donna Woodcock. As you know, she loved Greenfield High School, she loved the city of Greenfield but she really loved Greenfield High School field hockey. “Looking around at all the people and former players here today, it is a true testament to her dedication to the sport, to creating collaborative teams, to showing students the meaning of sportsmanship and team spirit that you have all found the time to join us here today,” Patenaude added.	✔ Yes
Cammalleri, Anthony (2024-03-13). "Four Corners principal to take helm at Greenfield High School". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			Effective July 1, Discovery School at Four Corners Principal Michael Browning will take the helm at Greenfield High School following Principal Derek Morrison’s June 1 departure. The superintendent’s office publicized Browning’s acceptance of the role in this month’s parent’s update newsletter, which also stated the school district is now searching for the best candidate to assume Browning’s position at Four Corners. Browning, who spent the last three years leading Four Corners following his prior three years as associate principal at Greenfield Middle School, said he is looking forward to reconnecting with some of the same students he oversaw at the middle school, now at the high school level. “I was over there the other day and saw a number of them. It was just so neat to see them as they’re growing in their experience and in life in general,” Browning said. “I have those relationships with them already, so I’m excited about reuniting and building off of those relationships so we can grow that school’s culture in a way that it continues to be a place where they want to be and want to learn.” In his new position, Browning said he aims to focus on the goals and priorities identified in the district’s five-year strategic plan, which was approved by the School Committee in June. The plan sets milestones for the district to work toward “quality instructional programs,” building and maintaining relationships through communication and outreach, and fostering a “welcoming environment” in which all students can learn. Additionally, Browning said he hopes to educate students on the array of wraparound services and programs that the district offers, such as the high school’s dual enrollment program with Greenfield Community College, and potentially expand programs and learning to better prepare students for the modern world. In the last 10 years, Browning said opportunities for graduating high school students to learn trades or attend college virtually have grown significantly. “We want to make sure we have students who are prepared to be team players and understand how to work collaboratively. Those weren’t things that we were really prepared with in the past when we went out and stepped into that workforce,” Browning said. “We’re in a neat, neat time in history. Because there are so many different opportunities, schooling looks so different. Now, when you step out of high school and head on to that next career, there’s a lot of different ways that can look. It’s really about opening their eyes and seeing how we’re best preparing them for those many opportunities out there that aren’t necessarily so traditional.” Morrison has served as principal since January 2022. Although Morrison declined to comment on the reasoning behind his exit from Greenfield High School, he said he is proud of the school’s growth over the course of two years. “We have shown academic improvement, we’ve shown attendance improvement, we’ve shown, overall, school culture improvement as well. Those three areas are really just helping us move forward,” Morrison said. “It’s tangible to anybody that comes in — they can see and feel it. I’m definitely proud of the work we’ve done and I’m going to miss the students here for sure.”	✔ Yes
Cammalleri, Anthony (2024-03-08). "Greenfield High School revives Drama Club with production of 'Myth Adventures'". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			After a four-year hiatus, the Greenfield High School Drama Club will return to the stage for its production of “Myth Adventures: Five Greek Classics.” Sporting laurel wreaths, crowns and togas, the young actors maneuvered the stage performing comedic renditions of five Greek myths at rehearsals this week, two weeks before the March 22 and 23 productions at the Greenfield High School Auditorium. Written by American playwright and screenwriter Eric Coble, “Myth Adventures” is a five-act dramatic comedy spotlighting classic Greek tales such as that of Icarus, King Midas and Orpheus. The production will serve as the Drama Club’s revival show, bringing it back from its dissolution at the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Greenfield High School French teacher Anna Hartmann and adjustment counselor Deborah Potee decided to bring the program back in the fall after results from a survey sent to students last spring showed significant interest in the club’s revival. Meeting weekly at the auditorium, the club, Hartmann said, has grown to become a tight-knit community of talented teen performers. “This fall, we ran some meetings before we selected a play or held auditions or anything, just to get the kids used to each other and used to inhabiting the space. Now it kind of feels like we own this space. This is Drama Club space,” Hartmann said. “We played games, we did improv, we were goofy and we got to know each other really well. We got really comfortable together and soon it started to feel a little bit more like a theater family.” Hartmann said since the show is fragmented into five 15-minute acts — each portraying a separate plot — it serves as a less intimidating alternative to having one actor play a lead in a feature-length play. Nonetheless, Hartmann said the students have been “killing it” on stage. “These kids have blown me away with how excited they are to show up every day and the amount of emotion and dedication that they bring to their characters. They really, really care about getting into character, conveying what they want to convey and feeling the things that their character is feeling in the moment. Even though it’s just a little 15-to-20-minute story for each of the actors,” Hartmann said. Faced with a limited budget, the club found creative ways to ensure the show went on as planned, recruiting the help of the school’s life skills program workers to sew curtains from the Salvation Army into robes and togas. Potee, holding up one of the hand-sewn robes being used as a prop, said co-directing the play has helped her build relationships with new students and give students an outlet to express themselves.“I’ve encouraged some of my students that I see regularly to participate because I think theater is good for everybody. It’s an opportunity to be something you are not normally able to be. Being a teenager is all about trying to figure out your identity and trying on different hats. For a lot of kids the theater is a chance to do that,” Potee said. “The best part is just seeing them play and be brave. It takes a lot of courage to get up in front of your peers as a teenager. … I’m very impressed by their willingness to go up there, especially when I think that culture at GHS has not been really focused on drama for a long time.” Greenfield High School senior Alice Menko, who will play Orpheus’ mother Calliope, said she wanted to join the club as a freshman, but was not able to because of the pandemic. She said since the club includes students in grades eight through 12, it helps underclassmen and upperclassmen bond through art. “Theater is a great way for people to meet more people, especially the younger grades. I feel like this show is going to be a stepping stone to bigger things in the future,” Menko said. “Now that it’s back, I think that Drama Club is going to continue to grow.” “Myth Adventures” premieres Friday, March 22, at 7 p.m. and will also be performed Saturday, March 23, at 2 p.m. and 7 p.m. Tickets cost $5 for students and $10 for adults. Children under the age of 5 will be admitted for free.	✔ Yes
Poli, Domenic (2024-01-25). "Greenfield High School students appeal to policymakers for help on local issues". The Recorder. Archived from the original on 2024-10-01. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			~ This source doesn't discuss the school as much as the others, seems borderline or ambiguous as far as SIGCOV Roughly 40 Greenfield High School students convened in the building’s library Thursday to talk with policymakers about the issues important to them. The YELO (Youth Engage with Legislators and Officials) forum fostered roundtable discussions on substance abuse, homelessness, school supports and Greenfield’s economic development. Teachers coordinated with the DIAL/SELF AmeriCorps program to facilitate the event, complete with pizza, drinks and snacks. “It’s mainly to get people listening to student voices, you know? Teenagers have opinions, believe it or not,” history teacher Luke Martin said with a laugh, “and we think that politicians and officials should listen to teenagers and know what they think about the communities they’ll be inheriting. And … for my purposes as a teacher, I like that students get to see and meet these officials who are just normal people and they have stepped up to sort of serve a role and help their community. “And I think it’s good for the students to see that that’s a … real possibility, for them to step up and do such a thing,” Martin continued. Guests included state Reps. Natalie Blais, D-Deerfield, and Susannah Whipps, I-Athol; Greenfield School Committee members Stacey Sexton and Elizabeth Deneeve; Rachel Stoler of the Franklin Regional Council of Governments; Elena Cohen and Mike Fiscella of state Sen. Jo Comerford’s office; and Quinn Mass, a 16-year-old Greenfield High School student who is part of the city’s Human Rights Commission. Students Izzy Semonelli, Kanza Boot and April Rooney-Adams emceed the event. During the rotating introductory sessions, Blais and Whipps explained to students how their legislative districts are drawn and how much time they spend in Boston. Because representation is based on population, Whipps said, she and Blais belong to districts that span dozens of communities, whereas some officials representing parts of eastern Massachusetts “can walk the perimeter of their districts.” Both local representatives said they prefer to spend most of their time in their district, closer to their constituents, and go to the state capital if the Legislature is in session or if there is a committee hearing. Blais said state lawmakers don’t find out until Friday afternoon what the following week’s schedule looks like. During the roundtable discussions, Rooney-Adams told Whipps and Cohen that she is concerned about road maintenance in Greenfield. She said a two-hour school delay is often not enough during heavy snowfall, and she and her mother were nearly involved in a crash earlier that day. “It’s so unsafe,” Rooney-Adams said, telling Whipps more needs to be done to pre-treat roadways. Whipps said she shares Rooney-Adams’ frustration, but that road maintenance is often the responsibility of a local municipality, not the state. She recommended Rooney-Adams write a letter to new Greenfield Mayor Ginny Desorgher to express her concerns. Whipps said she is hesitant to tell mayors how to handle their departments of public works because “I like to stay in my own lane.” But, she said, she fights vigorously for Chapter 90 money, which municipalities use for improvements to and investments in local transportation networks. In another discussion related to transportation, students spoke with Sexton and Deneeve about the critical need for new or repaired buses. They also expressed the feeling that the school’s sports teams seem to take priority over School Council or other clubs and organizations. Blais spoke with students about substance abuse and homelessness. The students told her that their peers regularly go to the school’s restrooms to vape and smoke, and they see their classmates getting addicted. They also said the abundance of dispensaries in the area is likely not helping the situation. Before the event ended, all participants formed a circle to mention something they had learned in the past two hours. Many students said they were surprised to find out how easy it is to contact their state representatives. Rebecca Zimmerman, an eighth grade civics teacher, told everyone that events like this are important because change is impossible without communication. Student Malachi Gray said the conversations restored his faith that there might be “a kernel of truth left in the American dream.”	~ Partial
Kincade, Katrina (2020-05-06). "Greenfield High School to hold graduation at Franklin County Fairgrounds, followed by parade". WWLP. Archived from the original on 2020-05-15. Retrieved 2024-10-01.			Greenfield High School has found a way to have their senior graduation while adhering to social distancing protocols. The new ceremony for the 69 graduating seniors will take place at the Franklin County Fairgrounds on May 30th. The administration says a lot of their families have transportation difficulties so the fairgrounds were a great close-by location to host the ceremony. The seniors get one car per family and remain in their cars until each senior gets out to walk across a stage individually. The principal of the school, Karin Patenaude, has been with the class since 6th grade. She told 22News how glad she was to be able to hold a ceremony, “A lot of tears of joy but I’m just really proud we can give them that ‘graduation moment’ even if it’s not the traditional one that they were expecting. I feel like this will at least make them proud.” After the ceremony at the fairgrounds, the Greenfield police and fire department are going to lead a parade through the city down Main Street, up Federal Street and then around the school for the seniors to say their final goodbyes. This upcoming Saturday the school administration will be going to every graduating senior’s household to give their families signs so they can display them outside. A rain date has also been schedule for May 31st.	✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Left guide (talk) 22:49, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most of those sources are routine coverage in the local newspaper. If that coverage counted towards NORG or GNG every local business would meet NORG or GNG.Lavalizard101 (talk) 17:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That source assessment is clearly problematic as I had already reminded you that, per WP:SIGCOV

Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability.

There are three sources there, not 10. The three sources are the Recorder, The Republican and WWLP news. All of these are local news. Also, sources should be secondary sources, and you have not considered that point at all. Why didn't you consider these points? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:50, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As Cunard says, there's no requirement in GNG for sources to be non-routine or non-local, so not sure why that argument continues to re-appear. Also, most local businesses have to meet both NORG and GNG, which is a significantly higher threshold, but WP:NSCHOOL allows public schools to be exempt from NORG if they pass GNG, and this is a public school. I split up the table into ten sections for ease of table construction and readability. The "significant coverage" section in particular would be incomprehensible if source text from multiple publications was lumped together. Primary sources in terms of news mainly refers to breaking news, as in events that happened live or just yesterday or the past few days per WP:PRIMARY:

For Wikipedia's purposes, breaking news stories are also considered to be primary sources.

I don't have the time right now do a sentence-by-sentence analysis of all of the sources, but if I did, it would show there is very little primary news reporting. For some of the sources, it's only in the first one or two sentences, and for others it's none. Left guide (talk) 20:27, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The sources and analysis provided above by Cunard and Left guide show that this subject meets WP:GNG.Jacona (talk) 19:38, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per the significant coverage that meets WP:GNG. Fred Zepelin (talk) 21:19, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - This is my source analysis. As I note, there are three sources here. To meet GNG, we need multiple independent reliable secondary sources with significant coverage. We are not there yet, which is presumably why we cannot WP:HEY the article yet. We don't have anything to build an article from. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:50, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why are we artificially raising the notability bar by using the NORG source table rather than the GNG table? It has already been established in WP:NSCHOOL that public schools only have to meet GNG. Note how the two keep !votes from folks largely uninvolved have affirmed notability via the topic's compliance with GNG. Left guide (talk) 20:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is an NORG table, because a school is an organisation and those are the relevant subject notability guidelines. It does not matter though, because NORG says these criteria, generally, follow the general notability guideline. The only difference in the table is there is a specific column for primary/secondary sources, rather than including that consideration in SIGCOV. But GNG is quite clear on that point, saying: "Sources" should be secondary sources. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:51, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Another source: Greenfield Gazette (page 41, published in 1892), quoted as follows:

THE GREENFIELD HIGH SCHOOL.

In March, 1852, an article was inserted in the warrant for the annual town meeting to see if the town would raise a sum of money for the support of a High school, as required by the revised statutes, and to build or purchase a school house. The matter was referred to a committee, Geo. Grinnell, W. T. Davis, Daniel W. Alvord, H.C. Newton and John J. Graves, who reported the following year. The law required that every town containing 500 families should maintain a school in which, in addition to the branches of learning usually taught in the common district schools, "instruction should be given in the history of the United States, book-keeping, surveying, geometry and algebra," and that such school should be kept for the benefit of all the inhabitants of the town, ten months at least, exclusive of vacations, at such convenient places in the town as the inhabitants shall at their convenience determine. The committee reported that no time should be lost in acting upon the matter, and recommended that an arrangement, if practicable, be made by the town with the village school district, for a lease of one or more rooms in the schoolhouse to be used for the High school for the larger part of the year, and that a like arrangement be made with the proprietors of the house for a select school near the North Brick meetinghouse, for the other portion of the year-this arrangement to continue for such time as the town should decide.

This plan, however, was not carried out until 1855, when a High school was organized. A small room was obtained, capapable of containing, said the school committee in their report, but not accommodating forty scholars. The schoolroom was fitted up in what was known as Davis' hall, in as cheap a manner as possible, as a temporary arrangement. Mr. Lather B. Lincoln of Deerfield was employed as the first teacher, at a salary of $50 a month. The school in this location was successful. In the autumn months it was removed to the hall in the schoolhouse at Nash's mill, "from a desire," said the committee, "of accommodating a larger number of our fellow citizens." "Here," continue the committee, "the terms of admission were modified, and a class of youth gained admittance whose objects and aims were in many respects foreign to the business of a schoolroom, and as a consequence much precious time was wasted, and the hopes of many were disappointed."

At the close of that term, the school was resumed at its old location in District No. 1. But the principal having been chosen to a seat in the Legislature, resigned, and Charles F. Vent was selected to succeed him. The expenses of the school for the first year were $696.14. In the school year of '56-7, the school was moved from Davis' ball to a room in the house of the Misses Stone. It opened with fifty scholars, all that could be accommodated, and a number were refused admission, for want of room. The town appropriated 8000 for the High school, and at the end of thirty-two weeks it was closed for want of less than $200, which was required to complete the term of forty weeks prescribed by law.

March 2, 1857, action was taken by the town relative to the selection of a location and the building of a house for a High school. Henry W. Clapp, H. C. Newton and Albert Smead were the committee previously appointed and they reported in favor of a location on Chapman street, and submitted a plan for a schoolhouse, 36 by 40 feet, built of wood, two stories high, which should have room for 140 scholars-70 in each of the two rooms– with "large entries for each sex." The cost was not to exceed $4000. A vote was passed in accordance with the recommendation. Rufus Howland was the chairman of the committee who had the construction in charge, and the entire cost of building and furnishing was $5240.

The Chapman street building was used for the High school until the new building was erected on Pleasant street, in 1872. The building committee having in charge the erection of the latter were C. C. Conant, A. C. Deane and D. H. Newton. The cost was $21,327.16.

Left guide (talk) 03:34, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is interesting, because every source provided to date has suggested the school opened in 2015. If the school has been there for 150 years it is much more likely to be notable. You will note my comment of 27 September regarding a Greenfield High School for young ladies that was mentioned. But what we have not established yet is that these are the same establishment. Has the same school existed for all this time and been rebuilt in 2015? Or was there an earlier high school that existed and ceased to exist? The above source itself is primary, but I would expect there would be much more on the school if it did have such a long history. Note to closer - Request a relist so that we can pursue this. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 06:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well actually no, the school didn't open brand new in 2015, and the previous sources don't seem to explicitly suggest that either. At least a few mention an "existing" or "present" school. If you read this source initially furnished by Cunard above, it says The project calls for the existing high school to be razed except for the auditorium. The new building will be constructed around that. It also goes on to say At a little less than 160,000 square feet, the new building will be about 6,000 square feet smaller than the present high school. So there is evidence that this big construction project about a decade ago involved the near-total demolition of the original school while preserving its auditorium, and the new one was built on the same site. For our purposes, it's the same school. Left guide (talk) 07:25, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That does not say that the replacement school is the same entity. But again, all that is required is to discover sources that show otherwise. I would be particularly interested to see if there were a centenary celebration. Such events usually attract histories, and the history would be both secondary and extremely useful. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:30, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That does not say that the replacement school is the same entity. This is bordering on pedantry. The sources say that the same exact project involved the demolition of the old version and the construction of the new version which was built on the same exact site, with the same auditorium being part of both versions. At some point, we have to exercise some common sense and editorial discretion. We can't expect sources to satisfy us 100% over the most mundane qualms someone can create, or they would be unreadably long; this seems like "sky is blue" territory. Left guide (talk) 08:17, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to the joy of working with primary sources. Your proposed synthesis is probably right, although there are examples where it could be wrong. I started typing one such example out but I don't see the point of deflecting discussion on a meta argument about what constitutes the entity. The point remains that the sources we have are not up to scratch, but if the school is the same school that has been in existence since 1852 (and we still do not know this) then I believe we will find sources with some more digging. We could keep arguing, or we could search for the sources with some hope now that this will be fruitful. Which would you like me to do? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also disagree with the claim that it's a primary source. That source was published in 1892, and chronicles history between 1852 and 1872, so between 20 and 40 years prior. That would be like if something published today chronicled the history of a school between 1984 and 2004, certainly far enough removed to be a secondary source. On another note, newspapers.com shows 97,401 results for "Greenfield High School" in the state of Massachusetts (out of 175,662 total results for the term worldwide), but I don't have a subscription, might be helpful if someone who does can examine the coverage available there. Left guide (talk) 07:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I checked newspapers.com via the Wikipedia Library in my WP:BEFORE, most of the results were the local newspaper with wedding announcements of former alumni. Lavalizard101 (talk) 08:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can access newspapers.com through the Wikipedia library. However there is a service issue affecting access. I have discovered that some browsers can work despite the service issue. For instance, I just accessed it using Brave, having explicitly chosen "shields down" for the site (www-newspapers-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org). I could not get it to work in Safari and I have limited success with Chrome. See if you can access this. You should be redirected to Wikipedia library login: [6] Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:13, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.