Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work - Wikidata

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Cultural heritage, Wikidata:WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage

Other related projects: Category:Cultural heritage WikiProjects

Needed to be able to matching and creating items on Wikidata that are objects in the collection of NHM and that are depicted in images on Wikimedia Commons, for example. / LinneaKarlberg (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Support LinneaKarlberg (talk) 13:05, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Support Eva L Vedin (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Support Elinor Rajka (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment @LinneaKarlberg:, @Eva L Vedin:, @Elinor Rajka:, @Azad Karimi: coordinating support votes with ones colleagues is not helpful, the property proposal process is in place for a reason. Abbe98 (talk) 22:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, we did not know. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment Considering that National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) exists and that other properties from SHM are likely to be proposed in the future(places, events, heritage sites, ect) maybe there should only be one property? As far as I'm aware the UUIDs are unique across the various types and even if that wouldn't be the case one could include the type prefix in the id. Abbe98 (talk) 22:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Abbe98: Sure, that would probably work. Do you have an example of another external identifier that includes several different types so I can check how it works? Is it possible then to change the name and details of P9495? LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Europeana entity (P7704) would be one example. I would imagine migrating/generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) by: 1. updating the formatter URL 2. adding the agent prefix to existing values 3. updating the label/description of the property Abbe98 (talk) 10:08, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Oppose Per the discussion above, I would suggest generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) rather than creating a new property for each type. I cave created a section on the discussion page. Abbe98 (talk) 10:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Abbe98  , It would then be necessary to differentiate "agents" from "object". How would you like to do? (incorporate it into the identifier as a general property? or use an external URL formatter?) We can also consider that each property will be dedicated to the type (less errors with dedicated constraints). It would be necessary to recontact those who have already voted, as well as the voters of the other property, to find out if your idea appeals to them, but with more information. I don't see a URL leading directly to the correct page without using the type (with only the UUID). Example: type:UUID. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I would imagine we would use one of the seven possible prefixes like agent/<UUID> and object/<UUID>. We could also use a generic resolver but there isn't an official one so I think such a solution is less optimal. Abbe98 (talk) 06:48, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Abbe98: @Eihel: @LinneaKarlberg: We just had a discussion about this with the Wikidata team at the National Historical Museums of Sweden. Our conclusion is that this property should not be created, and Abbe98's solution (using prefixes) is better. This will include us (WMSE is supporting the museum in their Wikidata work) generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and removing /person/ from the formatter URL and then adding the person prefix to all the existing uses of the property. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:10, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) I have pinged all the people who voted on National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495). I think we should leave it over the weekend at least but then if there are no one oposing this I can migrate it early next week. Abbe98 (talk) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We at NHM are all on board with this approach instead of several Properties. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 08:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like an excellent idea. Many thanks Abbe98 . /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 08:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone, I've started re-defining National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and will migrate the existing items using it. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata-objekt med denna egenskapen kan också ha Nationell Arkivdatabas Referenskod (P5324), men den persistenta identifieraren är enklare att använda för att skapa webbsides-URLer och länkad data-URIer. Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 13:28, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

•   Comment Hi - could you fix your examples to look more like other property proposals (should look like: item → id) ? Also it would be useful to have formatter URL and some of the other template parameters filled out if possible. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for the feedback! This is my first property proposal so I am very unsure of how to do things. I have reformatted the examples, added URL format and a see also reference. Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 08:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

•   Support Ok, looks good to me now! ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:48, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
•   Support Jneubert (talk) 05:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
•   Comment are the above examples also the canonical URIs? Considering that the RA has quite a lot of identifiers, could there be a less generic name/description? "primary database" doesn't say much to the average user. Abbe98 (talk) 21:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
•   Support,   Notified participants of WikiProject Sweden —MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 06:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been created as Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) se discussion - Salgo60 (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not the same as I understand. This proposal is for objects in archives (maybe even archives or series, though I struggle to come up with a case where they would have a wikidata item). The property you link is for an agent (Swedish: arkivbildare). Belteshassar (talk) 09:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Belteshassar, Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige), Abbe98: Dont we make it more complex than needed. Formatter url is the same

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/agent/$1 

My suggestion change the name on Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) to be both... I have used (maybe wrongly) both for the "person agent" and the "archive agent"

1) List examples nota bene August Strindberg seems to have more person identifiers at the National Archive looks like something that needs to be cleaned at "the National Archive"...

Having 2 different properties is like if someone should connect with Wikidata and add new properties for every type of instance instance of (P31) Wikidata has... ?

• Also Swedish National Archive reference code (P5324) is used for both persons and archives

- Salgo60 (talk) 20:35, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

•   Comment, I think this would be useful, perhaps also on commons. I’m not sure how many entries in NAD reference individual works, as I understand the purpose of the proposal, and to what degree those works are notable for Wikidata. Perhaps the creator of the proposal could enlighten me. Belteshassar (talk) 09:23, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • pushed the question also to github.com/Riksarkivet/dataplattform - Salgo60 (talk) 13:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
•   Comment read the thoughts over at the National Archive - Salgo60 (talk) 03:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
•   Comment Writing as the original author of this propopsal, I would like to put this on hold for the moment. I realize that this should probably be the RDF URI rather than just the PID. I have to think this over and if I do end up with wanting the RDF URI, there are issues to clear with the format of this. - Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 11:26, 28 Mars 2023 (UTC)

  FYI: Nils is working at the Swedish National Archives with this - Salgo60 (talk) 17:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like Nils left Riksarkivet and the whole thing died. I tried to ask about Riksarkivets terms but get odd answers see issue #22 - Salgo60 (talk) 10:53, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies

Other relevant projects: Category:Movie WikiProjects

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Anime and Manga

--Trade (talk) 13:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• they offer machine readable data   Support-Shisma (talk) 17:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• @Trade, Shisma:   Done as MyWaifuList character ID (P13031) Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 18:08, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Music

Other relevant projects: Category:Music WikiProjects

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Board Games

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Video games

Other relevant projects: Category:Video game WikiProjects

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Books

Other relevant projects: Category:Book WikiProjects

Open-access library created in 2021 by University of Warsaw with over 571,000 articles, 1700 journals, 1900 books, and 1000 publishers. Dexxor (talk) 23:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Notified participants of WikiProject Open Access

•   Support --Trade (talk) 21:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• @Dexxor, Trade:   Done as Biblioteka Nauki article ID (P13039), Biblioteka Nauki journal ID (P13040), Biblioteka Nauki book ID (P13041), and Biblioteka Nauki publisher ID (P13042). Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 20:09, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Podcasts

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Performing arts, Wikidata:WikiProject Theatre

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Fictional universes, Wikidata:WikiProject Narration

For projects about specific universes, see: Category:Fiction WikiProjects

We have no way of modeling this so a property is needed

•   Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes--Trade (talk) 21:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•   Notified participants of WikiProject Video games--Trade (talk) 21:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Comment is this really within Wikidata:Scope? You can only look this up from the game data which makes this original research. Also how do you compare this across games? 100 hitpoints might be a lot for one game and not so much for a game where the weapons kill you at first shot. Matthias M. (talk) 21:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It can also be referenced from wikis about the game. Original research isn't the only option. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 22:01, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Wd-Ryan: Are you referring to Fandom/Wikia wikis and other player-maintained wikis? These are considered unreliable (due to it being user-generated content) on many other Wikimedia projects. Is this "allowed for" on Wikidata? EdoAug (talk) 22:48, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm not sure if it makes the statement ineligible for inclusion altogether, but most identifiers can be entered as a reference. These websites, however, do not make the subject of the item notable. Either way, it isn't accurate to say health points wouldn't be found in any other external resource. For example, this random news article I quickly found references hitpoints (Not that this specific one is applicable).

  I'd also be fine with having this data in an existing property if there's a good one. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 23:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If someone for whatever reason wishes to ban Fandom as a source then this is not the right place to discuss it anyways Trade (talk) 22:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikidata has no general policy that declares player-maintained wikis to be unreliable. In practice it depends on the individual source. When it comes to information about these statistics I would expect those Wikis to be very reliable. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 19:35, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Naturally in some games 100 hitpoints will be a lot and in others very little. This is an issue of scaling and balancing and not something that affects the truthness of the statement Trade (talk) 22:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Comment This could be used on all items of Minecraft mobs. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 22:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•   Comment What about using properties such as has characteristic (P1552) (or something similar) and quantity (P1114) for the plethora of (video, board, role-playing) game attributes? A similar property is personality trait of fictional character (P9652). EdoAug (talk) 22:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  How about we just widen the scope to include board and role-playing games? Trade (talk) 22:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Trade: I'm referring to other types of attributes, such as strength, charisma, armour, running speed, mana, agility, dexterity, and the many other traits that characters may have in video games (but also other types of games), as well as health (and damage). Instead of creating bespoke properties for these, why not just have one for "gameplay trait of fictional character or item", or just use one of the aforementioned properties (and qualifier)? EdoAug (talk) 22:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Mechanics such as hit points and damage are largely universal across game genres and (arguable) inherent to most of them. Being able to spend skill points across multiple attributes for your characters is not Trade (talk) 23:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Not all usage of other attributes include spending skill points. Health and damage are not static numbers, either – many non-player characters in RPG video games have an ever-changing array of numbers, such as Jaina Proudmoore (Q819585), whose health is different in various expansions of World of Warcraft, as well as spin-off games such as Heroes of the Storm and Hearthstone, where her damage and mana (resource) is also relevant.

  I am simply offering an alternative way of portraying these numbers in a way that may include a wider spectrum of similar traits. I don't really think specific properties are necessary, but I'm not too opposed to them either. I think it would be better to have a more open-ended property that would accommodate for multiple types of statistics (including health and damage... and mana, agility, running speed, level, et cetera). EdoAug (talk) 23:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree we need a property with a wider scope, there's going to be plenty of stats that only apply to items from specific games so a general purpose property in the same area as has characteristic (P1552) would likely work best. Taking Pokémon items as an example (I believe we have over 1000 of those at this point) it would be advantageous to be able to provide their base statistics: HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed. Since these stats are quite relevant to gameplay it should be easy to find sources without having to resort to fan wikis. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 02:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with you, Lewis. Some kind of "has statistic" property with a number data type and units for each statistic type. (health point, attack point, etc.) -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 17:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That's something along the lines I meant. EdoAug (talk) 17:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @EdoAug, @Lewis Hulbert, @Matthias M., @Wd-Ryan, would you like to give your opinions? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  We need some kind of scope for that type of property to work. Otherwise it just becomes an unworkable mess Trade (talk) 14:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Oppose This type of data belongs in a specific fan wiki. The numbers aren't meaningful to non-players. Dexxor (talk) 00:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikidata is contributed by people active in different topics and have very different goals of contribution, so "not meaningful to non-players" is not a good reason against it. However we does have a Wikia equalvent of Wikidata (Wikibase Cloud), so I have no position for or against the property.--GZWDer (talk) 11:20, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The values are only comparable within other actors of the same game so a per game https://wikiba.se/ is the only option that makes sense to me. I am biased because I think this is the equivalent of en:WP:GAMECRUFT and I am not at all interested in these values as well. Matthias M. (talk) 19:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There are plenty of property proposals that doesnt interest me. Doesnt mean that it somehow doesnt belong on Wikidata Trade (talk) 11:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually, this whole proposal process is mostly not about validity, but if people find it interesting. You can also get rejected when nobody replies. Also note that I did not vote against your proposal even though I raised concerns. On Wikipedia this kind of content would be removed and Fandom wiki (Q106513246) took over the niche. Maybe this wants to live in a Wikidata instanced hosted by Fandom, Inc. (Q20466202) instead? I am not sure where to draw the line and if this has been discussed already. I think even video game character classes like Sniper (Q128164668) and Sniper (Q56363410) are a bit of a stretch of what I assume this website is about. Matthias M. (talk) 09:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  "Actually, this whole proposal process is mostly not about validity, but if people find it interesting." Dunno. If i were to oppose any identifiers for scholarly papers with the reasoning that the subject bored me i can imagine it would get some push back

  Either way i think it would be beneficial for both of us if we had something like Wikidata:Arguments to avoid in property proposals Trade (talk) 18:20, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The thing with these numbers is that they are not comparable across game franchises. I can't imagine a situation where you would want to query for them on Wikidata instead of processing a table of health values collected by fans of the game, especially considering it's unrealistic to create items for every game entity that has health points. While there's nothing wrong with this property per se, we also need to take into account whether it's useful (external identifiers are often useful because they help with disambiguation and data reconciliation). Dexxor (talk) 21:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I cant imagine a situation where someone would want to compare health points across completely different games in the first place. If one wishes to query this property, limiting the results to characters from specific works or franchises shouldn't be too hard Trade (talk) 16:43, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  "not meaningful to non-players" is not a good reason against. -- Jerimee (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Support (without comment) Jerimee (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have no way of modeling this so a property is needed

•   Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes--Trade (talk) 21:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•   Notified participants of WikiProject Video games --Trade (talk) 22:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Comment Where did you source those example values from? Matthias M. (talk) 10:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Trade:, could you please clarify the comment? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If Matthias wish to rally against the use of Fandom as a reference this is not the appropriate place to do so. --Trade (talk) 11:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Trade, I am sorry to say that I personally did not expect such a reply especially from you. It's simple, if you have any source then YES (with reference), else NO! Matthias M., any comment based on the response? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 03:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Using Fandom article ID (P6262) would be a valid reference. Having none is unacceptable though. Matthias M. (talk) 09:42, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  We already had users adressing this exact thing in the above proposal. I'll rather we just move the discussion somewhere else instead of going through it in every single proposal ad infinitum Trade (talk) 18:28, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have no way of modeling this so a property is needed

My knowledge of real-life firearms is limited so please bear over me if i made any mistakes.

•   Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes--Trade (talk) 22:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•   Notified participants of WikiProject Video games--Trade (talk) 22:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Firearms are not the only engineered things in the world that use magazines (clips). We should change the description to something more like

"In (real or fictional) devices like a firearm, weapon, or engineered thing, this is the default capacity or size of a devices' magazine, clip, or other container typically used to hold ammunition, bolts, cartridges, tools, etc. which pushes those items as needed usually through a spring-based mechanism into a receiver for further use by the device".

This should allow broad usage on not only weapon (Q728), but any engineered device, machine (Q11019), tool (Q123691918), or object (Q488383) most generally. --Thadguidry (talk) 23:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind adding examples? Trade (talk) 00:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also fortifications. Vicarage (talk) 04:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add or replace examples Trade (talk) 21:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thadguidry, could you please clarify comments above? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 02:52, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. Single and Multi-cartridge pen injectors for diabetes patients use a magazine to hold the cartridge(s).

2. Magazines used in various medical devices where clinical applications are administered to patients, such as nucleic acid delivery systems for cancer treatments.

3. Lab-on-a-chip devices use cartridges inserted into magazines for rapid diagnostic testing.

4. In metalworking, stamping presses use magazines to feed formed sheets or strips of metal into presses.

5. In construction, various tools use magazines to hold nails, screws, fasteners, etc. for quick dispensing. (Nail guns, etc.)

6. CNC Machines use "tool magazines" for holding and autoloading from, to allow continuous operation. In this context, the magazine is reused, over and over to load/unload the tool tips, adapters, etc. from. It's still a magazine and spring loaded typically, but with multiple outlets, not only a single outlet (so that multiple tools can be grabbed from at once, used, and then stored again into the "magazine").

7. Injection molding machines use magazines to automatically load plastic pellets from a larger hopper.

8. Color guns, other equipment types (NOT WEAPONS) used in games and real life - https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Color_Gun -- Thadguidry (talk) 07:17, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thadguidry and Vicarage, would you like to give your opinions? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 07:26, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Support in its broader usage form. Vicarage (talk) 07:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Support in its broader usage form. It will be useful to not constrain this proposed magazine capacity to only weapons, as I have demonstrated above, which can come later with other proposed properties or qualifiers in order to have the capability to narrow queries. Otherwise, it should be renamed to "weapon magazine capacity" as to not affect a future more broader property of "magazine capacity" later on. My preference is to go with the broader form for a property now. Thadguidry (talk) 08:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Support Vicarage (talk) 09:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•   Support in broader form Kurzov (talk) 19:58, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  
• This seems to propose a property for a very broad spectrum of things that are called "magazine" specifically in the English language. But what about other languages? Wikidata's data model is supposed to be largely language-agnostic and other languages can (and often do) have widely different names for these things - to the point where they might be considered somewhat related but distinct concepts. So I think this isn't really optimal and it's usually better to create properties for specific, easily defined concepts rather such broad, vague ones. --2A02:810B:5C0:1F84:BC74:40E3:34A3:4D8A 01:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Disagree. Much easier and faster to code queries for a few flexible properties than unions of specific ones Vicarage (talk) 04:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Trade, Vicarage, Kurzov, Thadguidry:   Done as magazine capacity (P13048) Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 21:59, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Notified participants of WikiProject France. Maxime 07:31, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Support. If the identifier could indeed be interesting, I would not encourage the creation of all Wikidata elements per episode which would be excessive and would not moreover meet the structural need. — Baidax ^💬 07:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Bonjour Baidax. Nous sommes déjà d'accord sur le fait qu'une telle propriété serait utile pour mieux référencer et décrire tous les programmes de l'audiovisuel public français. Concernant les émissions/épisodes, cela me semble mériter la discussion. En tout cas, je crois savoir que Deansfa (avec d'autres) en a créé un certain nombre, et cela me semble utile et nullement excessif. Après tout, je crois que Wikidata ambitionne de proposer une somme du savoir humain. Bien à toustes, Maxime 08:02, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   Support. --Deansfa (talk) 19:08, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/works

Software products and brands, see: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/terms